Diesel vs Gasoline

[n0mad]

70% of what I read in these threads just comes off as gasoline owners trying to justify to themselves their decisions not to buy diesels. There is one that is clearly superior to the other for towing, if money is not a major concern.

Yes diesels are more expensive both up front, and with maintenance costs. Fuel costs a little more per gallon. You generally don't buy RVs or cars as investments, so who cares if you never make up the cost difference. Buy what you want to drive and/or need to have. And for people who spend too much time complaining about this, diesels sure seem to hold their resale value so you get a lot of that money back if you ever sell. Reliability might have been a point to consider when the DPF/SCR first came out, and with Ford's 6.0/6.4 issues, but with modern trucks is an overblown issue.

Having had a few trucks, both gas and diesel, and several large trailers, I know what the better option is, and will drive a diesel until EVs are on the market with massive battery capacities and widespread recharge networks.

...

I've been there. Not recently, but I certainly remember how confident I was in a few of the gas engines I've owned. Funnily enough, I did the same not once, not twice, but three times regarding truck size. When I ran a midsize I said it was plenty and I did not need a full size, when I drove a half ton I said it met my needs sufficiently and it wasn't until I upgraded to a fifth wheel that I needed a 3/4T. When upgraded to another fifth I spent a couple years throwing good money after bad to make the 3/4T comfortably perform the job of a DRW. I learned my lesson many times over about using the right tools for the job, but it took a long time for me to suck it up, actually acknowledge the deficiencies, and apply that lesson when it came to trucks.

[tuffr2]

I think the new 2020 Gas engines will be better at towing. At least it will be interesting but Diesel will be King until the next big thing.

[Cowpie1]

Originally Posted by kendall69

It's all about perspective. I bet you also made EVEN MORE money fixing gas vehicles.
If diesels were so bad then why does every over the road truck you see have a diesel.
If diesels were so bad then why does every FIRE truck you see have a diesel.
If diesels were so bad then why does every Hot shot driver have a diesel.

"if everyone had the same luck as you there would be no need for a diesel mechanic lol".....I've has the same "luck" with over 20 gas vehicles I've owned over the years. Like I said It's all about how you drive a vehicle and how you maintain it.

I'll bet you made money fixing diesel, but to quanify your statement I would need to know how these people drove their vehicles, how they maintained them etc so we are all accurate with our assumptions that diesels are "less dependable" than gas vehicles.

Go to various disel sites most have a section "how many miles on your vehicle" and look at those numbers. 600K 800K etc. The Sprinter site has a list of high milage diesels more than I have ever seen with any gas vehicle.

Except that you are not up to date. There are tens of thousands of semi trucks running around..... on natural gas.... not diesel. Yes, even OTR trucks, though they are mostly line haul OTR as opposed to irregular route OTR. Same for many municipal vehicles.

The only reason that diesel is still the main fuel for trucking is due to the fuel network in the country, not because it is the best thing going. If it weren't more problematic with limited fueling locations, I would sell my diesel semi tractor and get a NG powered version in a heartbeat. None of the diesel emissions junk to fool with and still deliver the power to move the very same stuff my 53 foot van trailer has to move now.

And while gassers generally will not get similar life cycle miles from them as oppose to diesels, I can drop two crate engines into my 3/4 ton before I even come close to the cost of the diesel version as oppose to the gas version. So in the final analysis, that argument on longevity is a wash. For what most people do with their pickups... gas or diesel... the vehicle will usually give up before the motor does. Only commercial users that rack up considerable miles in a short period will generally see those 600,000+ miles on their engines. Those are primarily highway miles and there are many examples of gassers that primarily were highway runners that racked up several hundred thousand miles.

[NevadaNick]

Shuttle service in Prescott Az has gas powered vans that have a bunch of miles on them. One i rode in had over 600,000 mi on it.

[Diesel-Lover]

Originally Posted by NevadaNick

Shuttle service in Prescott Az has gas powered vans that have a bunch of miles on them. One i rode in had over 600,000 mi on it.

Yes CNG or LNG driven vehicles are a lot cleaner for the environment and also for the engine! If the lubricant chemistry is managed correctly then they will go and go and go.


There is a battery electric Trolley in Dayton and the Wright Brothers National Monument / Carillon Park which has multiple million miles on it and it looks as though it could do another million or three (was told by a worker that it did not take much restoration to put it there), guess passengers were also more careful of the equipment just as the drivers and mechanics were.


Gosh what has happened to common pride and decency these days where has all that community spirit gone?

[n0mad]

Originally Posted by NevadaNick

Shuttle service in Prescott Az has gas powered vans that have a bunch of miles on them. One i rode in had over 600,000 mi on it.

Sure, but there are service histories associated with those, most likely with some major overhauls.

You are not unlikely to find major overhauls on a smaller diesel at that mileage, either. The B50 life for diesel engines are typically much higher than gas, though.

[CecilD]

I like my diesel truck. I bought it used over six years ago. I've put 36k miles on it since then, maybe 75% towing. Every one of the 40+ RV trips I have taken with the truck I depart 98% confident the truck will get me there and back without drama or incident; which it has. The fuel economy is good, I change the oil for less than 50 bucks, The fuel filter is easy to change. In six years I have had no engine related issues on a fifteen year old truck.

Apparently other people like my truck too. Kelly Blue Book informs me that my truck has depreciated less than a thousand dollars during my six years of ownership. My experience with my previous gasser wasn't the same. I'm keeping the diesel.

[bross]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

I think the new 2020 Gas engines will be better at towing. At least it will be interesting but Diesel will be King until the next big thing.

I have no doubt the new big gas motors will have the power for towing, for me personally the draw of a diesel is the exhaust brake. That was a major sticking point on our class A gas motorhome. We live in the west, surrounded by mountains and split our time between the coast and you guessed it the mountains. Anything over a 6% grade had the Canyon Star in 1st gear screaming at 4-5000rpm with the 4 way flashers on. If we lived in Florida or the prairies and never drove out west, we'd probably still have the Canyon Star.

Our current setup works just fine and I love the way it tows, 25' 5800lb trailer towed with our F-150 3.5l Ecoboost. Love the motor, it pulls like a diesel and have never felt like we were running away on even steeper descents.

But if we ever upsize again to to something like the Canyon Star at 26,000lbs, it'll be a diesel for sure.

Question about the OTR trucks running NG, do they have any kind of exhaust brake or jake brake? Or do they use a retarder? Just curious.

[joesesto]

Originally Posted by Cowpie1

I am not sure one can ever recover the cost in terms of fuel. Diesel in my area right now is $3.04. I filled up my Chevy 2500 the other day with E85 for $1.89 a gallon. I average about 11-12 mpg on E85 for all miles. For a diesel 2500 to break even on the cost per mile, it would have at average 18-19 mpg for all miles, not just highway miles. That is possible in the right hands, but again, that is only breakeven on a cost per mile basis with what I get using E85 in my gasser. My on highway MPG using E85 exclusively on a 2000 mile round trip (no trailer) last year came in at about 13.75 MPG. At the current price, the diesel 2500 woulda have to average 22-23 MPG highway. Again, realistic, but again, that is just break even.


I will acknowledge that diesel can be more pleasurable in some instances. But the gasser is not so unpleasurable

There are only Five (5) E85 gas stations in CA...population close to 40,000,000. None is within 170 miles of my front door. I'm guessing a 340 mile round trip to fill up might not be practical. CA gas tax is extremely high. I just read that only the maximum dilution gets a tax break.


I recall several unpleasurable instances with my 1986 F-250 Navistar 6.9L non-turbo 4WD...like a half mile long sooty black exhaust trail following me up a long grade in the Eastern Sierra.


No complaints or unpleasurable instances yet in our 2015 Silverado 3500 Duramax 4WD. Turbos make all the difference. i learned that decades ago in our first Cessna Turbo 210. The turbos in my tiny 3.0L V6 CT6 AWD develop the same torque as my C6 Vette 6.0L V8, both 400 lb.ft. Not much less than some of these next gen gassers.


Joe Sesto
Nipomo, CA

[Cowpie1]

Originally Posted by n0arp

Sure, but there are service histories associated with those, most likely with some major overhauls.

You are not unlikely to find major overhauls on a smaller diesel at that mileage, either. The B50 life for diesel engines are typically much higher than gas, though.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hDF1zcaxrNU

[kendall69]

The one thing no one is talking about is people that buy diesel really don't care about diesel fuel prices vs gas prices, don't care about spending the "extra" on the diesel engine, don't care about extra maintenance, don't care about the smell of diesel, don't care about anything else "gas advocates" say. Maybe just maybe diesel people just like diesels and enjoy driving diesels - PERIOD. Nothing more nothing less. That's what makes this country so great. people like me can buy and drive a diesel for no other reason than I want to and can! OH and if the price of fuel worries you can make your own diesel for about fifty cents a gallon with used fry oil in the garage and there is no one that can refine gasoline in their garage.

[kendall69]

Originally Posted by Cowpie1

Except that you are not up to date. There are tens of thousands of semi trucks running around..... on natural gas.... not diesel. Yes, even OTR trucks, though they are mostly line haul OTR as opposed to irregular route OTR. Same for many municipal vehicles.

The only reason that diesel is still the main fuel for trucking is due to the fuel network in the country, not because it is the best thing going. If it weren't more problematic with limited fueling locations, I would sell my diesel semi tractor and get a NG powered version in a heartbeat. None of the diesel emissions junk to fool with and still deliver the power to move the very same stuff my 53 foot van trailer has to move now.

And while gassers generally will not get similar life cycle miles from them as oppose to diesels, I can drop two crate engines into my 3/4 ton before I even come close to the cost of the diesel version as oppose to the gas version. So in the final analysis, that argument on longevity is a wash. For what most people do with their pickups... gas or diesel... the vehicle will usually give up before the motor does. Only commercial users that rack up considerable miles in a short period will generally see those 600,000+ miles on their engines. Those are primarily highway miles and there are many examples of gassers that primarily were highway runners that racked up several hundred thousand miles.

...OH I'm up to date there are estimates of 15.5 million DIESEL trucks operate in the U.S.A. of those that run on natural gas don't even come out to a rounding error so they weren't worth discussing. But I did do the math for you, it's about 0.010666667 Percent of trucks that run Natural Gas. Hardly worth even a footnote in any trucking discussion.

Natural gas powers more than 160,000 vehicles in the United States and roughly 15.2 million vehicles worldwide. Natural gas vehicles (NGVs)

[NevadaNick]

Kendall is right for the most part. I buy dsl pickups because thats what i want. I have a GMC 2500 SLT 4wd dsl. If it was all about $$ i would have a base truck with a gas engine. Even bought a dsl SUV in 2011 and would buy another if MB still offered them.

[Snakebite476]

Well this thread has gone full circle a few times over. Seems that the only thing that everyone agrees on is that Diesels have more power. Everything else has promoters on both sides of the issue. Some folks just have to have all the power that they can get, whether they need it or not. If the Gasser will satisfy your needs, then get a Gasser. If your needs require a Diesel, then get a Diesel. It is YOUR needs that count, whether they are legitimate pulling power requirements or just Chest Beating Power requirements. You are the one spending the money.