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Old 02-17-2013, 07:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonbound View Post
Does a trailer braking system (surge type) increase the GCVWR?

Thanks all
What will you be towing with surge brakes?
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonbound View Post
The Dodge link provided above (thanks) states a 13,400 towing maximum.
As Rusty pointed out, no, you cannot go by the tow rating. The tow rating (of all brands of trucks) is optimistic based on invalid assumptions. And even if it were reasonably accurate, it tells you only the weight you can pull without overheating something in the drivetrain while climbing a decent grade at highway speeds, and ignores the hitch weight you can haul. As long as you stay on the flats, you can exceed the tow rating without any disastrous effects. You'll be the slowpoke in the far-right lane holding up the truck traffic, but you'll probably make it without burning up something if you pay attention to your gauges. And that assumes you have an accurate tranny temp gauge.

A pickup with single rear wheels (SRW) like yours will almost always run out of GVWR (limits hitch weight) before you reach the GCWR (limits gross trailer weight). A 5er that grosses 13,000 pounds will usually have 18 to 20 percent hitch weight, so count on 20%. 20 percent of 13,000 is 2,600 pounds. If your truck doesn't have 2,600 pounds of unused payload capacity before you tie onto the 5er, then you'll be overloaded over the suspension and maybe the rear axle weight capacity of your SRW truck.

I don't know the max hitch weight of a wet and loaded Dodge, so I'll use the Ford F-350 SRW as an example. Loaded to 8,000 pounds before you tie onto the trailer, there is 3,500 pounds available for hitch weight before you run out of the 11,500 GVWR. So if the GVWR of your truck is 11,500, then you'll probably be okay.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:57 AM   #17
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I tow a Big Country by Heartland with the 7k axles and LR G tires. Its a dream to tow. I never found any problem towing it with my F250 6.0l. These Heartland units are very easy to tow. My previous unit 3500 lbs lighter was harder on fuel. The BH will not be a problem with your 1ton SRW. There are 3 SRW here in the park pulling large Heartlands.
With 30% more air in the tires its like close to 30% less drag according to my torque gauge. I pulled a 30ft TT and it took more torque to keep it at 60mph them my 39ft 5th wheel. So weight has no value when the unit is well build.
I can't believe how helpful folks are on this blog! Gives me great hope that we're going to continue to find some great folks during our new RVing Lifestyle

Just to clarify the above - could you clarify what you mean by 30% more air in the tires? Is that only a feature of Heartland products?

Coincidentally, I logged on to start a thread asking what folks are actually towing with a 3500 6.7 TD (or similar) - maybe I won't have to
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:02 AM   #18
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We are looking at a Heartland Bighorn 3260 Elite with a dry weight of 12,000 lbs. The truck is equipped with a surge braking system for the trailer where you can adjust the amount of braking power that goes to the trailer. It also has a manual slide that you can use when necessary - I imagine when you need the trailer to stop/brake more forcefully than what you currently have the system set for.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:10 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Oregonbound View Post
We are looking at a Heartland Bighorn 3260 Elite with a dry weight of 12,000 lbs. The truck is equipped with a surge braking system for the trailer where you can adjust the amount of braking power that goes to the trailer. It also has a manual slide that you can use when necessary - I imagine when you need the trailer to stop/brake more forcefully than what you currently have the system set for.
Those are electric brakes. Surge brakes are usually found on boat trailers and rentals. They apply the brakes when the trailer surges forward. With surge brakes, you have no control of the brakes and no way of testing their effectiveness.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:15 AM   #20
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I have a 2011 Ram 3500 6.7L Turbo Diesel Crew Cab, SWR 4x4 (3.73). I sent an email to Dodge and that is where they confirmed the towing capacity of the truck at 13, 400.
The receiver hitch is rated at 500 lbs but with a weight distribution hitch it is increased to 1000. But, we are likely going with a 5er so will have a hitch installed that can handle the hitch and tongue weight of the Bighorn 3260 Elite (and will ensure that the GVWR of the tow vehicle is not exceeded)
I'll be looking at where we can get the tow vehicle weighed. Thanks.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:16 AM   #21
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Any tire expert, and I'm not an expert, will tell you to never over inflate your tires. You also do not want to run under inflated. Adding 30% air to an already max air tire will have them over inflated.

The manuals I have read state that trailer tires are inflated to the max sidewall tire pressure. The tow vehicle tire inflation should abide by the manufacturer's recommended air pressure chart.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:18 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by ChooChooMan7 View Post
Those are electric brakes. Surge brakes are usually found on boat trailers and rentals. They apply the brakes when the trailer surges forward. With surge brakes, you have no control of the brakes and no way of testing their effectiveness.
Thanks for the clarification on the brakes. Good to know exactly what we have.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:43 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
As Rusty pointed out, no, you cannot go by the tow rating. The tow rating (of all brands of trucks) is optimistic based on invalid assumptions. And even if it were reasonably accurate, it tells you only the weight you can pull without overheating something in the drivetrain while climbing a decent grade at highway speeds, and ignores the hitch weight you can haul. As long as you stay on the flats, you can exceed the tow rating without any disastrous effects. You'll be the slowpoke in the far-right lane holding up the truck traffic, but you'll probably make it without burning up something if you pay attention to your gauges. And that assumes you have an accurate tranny temp gauge.

A pickup with single rear wheels (SRW) like yours will almost always run out of GVWR (limits hitch weight) before you reach the GCWR (limits gross trailer weight). A 5er that grosses 13,000 pounds will usually have 18 to 20 percent hitch weight, so count on 20%. 20 percent of 13,000 is 2,600 pounds. If your truck doesn't have 2,600 pounds of unused payload capacity before you tie onto the 5er, then you'll be overloaded over the suspension and maybe the rear axle weight capacity of your SRW truck.

I don't know the max hitch weight of a wet and loaded Dodge, so I'll use the Ford F-350 SRW as an example. Loaded to 8,000 pounds before you tie onto the trailer, there is 3,500 pounds available for hitch weight before you run out of the 11,500 GVWR. So if the GVWR of your truck is 11,500, then you'll probably be okay.
Ok, so need some assistance here (again).

Here are the maxes from the truck:
GAWR front = 5550
GAWR rear = 6200
GVWR = 10100
Max for tires = 2745 cargo max
Bighorn 3260 Elite hitch weight (dry) = 2115

So, from what I understand, assuming that the truck when I go to the scales is 2745 lbs below the GVWR (10,1000 minus 2745 = 7,355) it should be ok as far as GVW. With the tires, it looks like as long as I have under 630 lbs of cargo (2745 minus hitch weight of 2115), I should be ok there.

Basically it looks like that I need to weigh the tow vehicle and get that number. I then need to subtract that number from the GVWR of 10,100. Whatever is left over is the number I cannot exceed in combining both cargo, 5er hitch and tongue weight.
Am I looking at the correctly?
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:47 AM   #24
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I say doable because:

1. Not going to tow a lot.
2. Initial tow will be on flat terrain
3. Probably still within limits of tow vehicle
4. You see lesser trucks towing more weight - unwisely I will add.

Make sure tire pressure is ok.

Good luck.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:56 AM   #25
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Since I don't know specifically what line you were looking on to get the Ram ratings on the bodybuilder website, how about looking up a couple of more ratings/weights for the truck you're considering that are on the same line where you got the MAXIMUM trailer tow rating:

GCWR
Manufacturer's truck curb weight

With these numbers, we can help you calculate some realistic tow capacities.


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Old 02-17-2013, 03:26 PM   #26
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Since I don't know specifically what line you were looking on to get the Ram ratings on the bodybuilder website, how about looking up a couple of more ratings/weights for the truck you're considering that are on the same line where you got the MAXIMUM trailer tow rating:

GCWR
Manufacturer's truck curb weight

With these numbers, we can help you calculate some realistic tow capacities.


Rusty
The GCWR is 21,000 lbs. While I need to weight the truck at a scale, from what I've researched the curb weight is around 7000 lbs.

In adding up the GCWR, is it: weight of loaded vehicle + tongue weight + loaded
trailer? Or is the tongue weight even included?
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:35 PM   #27
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GCWR - loaded truck = Max loaded trailer weight
21000 - 7000 = 14000# max loaded trailer weight


GVWR - loaded truck = max loaded trailer pin weight.
10100 - 7000 = 3100# maximum pin weight

I doubt if your truck only weighs 7000# when you add passenger, cargo, hitch and full fuel tank.

My 2012 Ford F350 crew cab dually, weights 8810# wet and loaded before I hook up the 5er. My GVWR is 13,300# and the GCWR is 30,000#. My Cameo 36' 5th wheel has a GVWR of 16,050#

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Old 02-17-2013, 04:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonbound View Post
So, from what I understand, assuming that the truck when I go to the scales is 2745 lbs below the GVWR (10,1000 minus 2745 = 7,355) it should be ok as far as GVW. With the tires, it looks like as long as I have under 630 lbs of cargo (2745 minus hitch weight of 2115), I should be ok there.
Bad assumption. My '99.5 F-250 4x2 CrewCab diesel with 8' bed weighed about 8,000 pounds with nobody in the cab but me and Darling Wife and a small Pomeranian. Toolbox and jacks in the bed. 16k fiver hitch and full tank of fuel. A 4x4 would have weighed about 400 pounds more. I'll bet your wet and loaded Ram 3500 SRW diesel 4x4 will exceed 8,000 pounds.

Quote:
Basically it looks like that I need to weigh the tow vehicle and get that number. I then need to subtract that number from the GVWR of 10,100. Whatever is left over is the number I cannot exceed in combining both cargo, 5er hitch and tongue weight.
Am I looking at the correctly?
Weigh the truck, yes. But otherwise close but no cigar. When you weigh the truck, be sure it is already loaded with everything that will be in it when towing, including passengers, pets, tools, 5er hitch, and a full tank of fuel. Then you don't have to guess.

If you don't have the 5er hitch installed yet, decide which one you will install and add the shipping weight of both the hitch and the install kit to the scale weight of the truck. Those weights are available from any website that sells your hitch, such as
Trailer hitch, hitches and bike rack
or
Welcome to FifthWheelHitches.com

Then subtract the weight of the wet and loaded truck from the GVWR of the truck and the answer is the max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded. No guessing as to the weight of passengers and "cargo".

Quote:
In adding up the GCWR, is it: weight of loaded vehicle + tongue weight + loaded
trailer? Or is the tongue weight even included?
No, you added tongue weight twice. And it sounds like you may be confusing GCWR and GVWR. GCWR is the max weight you can have on all the tires on both the truck and trailer. GVWR is the max weight you have on just the truck tires.

GCW is the combined total of wet and loaded truck and trailer. So when working with scale weights, it would be the weight on the two truck axles plus the weight on the trailer axles. Then compare the GCW to the GCWR of the truck.

For a 5e trailer, the weight on the two truck axles will include the hitch weight, so you don't want to add the hitch weight again.

For a TT with a WD hitch, the hitch weight will be spread over all the axels on the truck and trailer, so it's already included in the GCW

You don't normally need to know hitch weight, except when researching a different trailer to be sure the wet and loaded hitch weight won't result in your exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle. Ignore dry hitch weight in the trailer specs, and compute the probable hitch weight as 15% of the GVWR of a TT or 20% of the GVWR of a 5er.
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