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Old 02-15-2013, 09:17 AM   #1
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Does Weight Distribution Hitch or Trailer Brakes increase the GCVWR?

I have a 2011 Ram 3500 6.7L Turbo Diesel Crew Cab, SWR (3.73). I am in the process of getting EXACTLY what the GCVWR (loaded vehicle incl. tongue weight + loaded trailer) from Dodge so we can decide on a travel trailer or 5th Wheel.

My questions are:

Will a weight distribution hitch (for a TT) increase the GCVWR?
Does a trailer braking system (surge type) increase the GCVWR?

Thanks all
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:14 AM   #2
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Hi

Nope, not 1 pound
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:18 AM   #3
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Concur...with that rig you have you can tow about anything out there anyway!
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:19 AM   #4
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I'm not sure if you're asking about GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) or GCWR (gross combination weight rating), but either rating assumes use of weight distribution equipment per the receiver limitations as well as trailer brakes. So, no, your limits aren't increased by using these, but you don't even want to think about towing a heavy TT without weight distribution and anti-sway as well as functioning trailer brakes.

By the way, all the Ram data can be found here on the Ram body builders guide. Be careful, though, as all the data is based on a truck with no options beyond what comes on the model selected and with only a 150 lb driver.

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Old 02-15-2013, 11:14 AM   #5
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No he is talking about Combined Vehicle Weight (CGVWR).

And as others have stated, Nothing in your post will change it one bit, What would change it is new suspension, new axles, it might need a new frame, new wheels brakes and basically.. A newer bigger tow vehicle. (That would be less expensive in any case)

If you have a 5er (Which you don't) and CGVW is a problem Consider a Trail-Hauler (Just google it) With those you really don't worry much about "Is the trailer too heavy" Cause it's not.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:51 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by wa8yxm View Post
No he is talking about Combined Vehicle Weight (CGVWR).
Neither Dodge nor the Texas Transportation Code recognize any such terminology. The recognized ratings are GAWR (gross axle weight rating), GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) and GCWR (gross combination weight rating). Perhaps that's a Ford or Chevy term (although I seriously doubt it).....

If the OP asked Chrysler engineers what the GCVWR of a Ram truck was, the look on their face would be like that of a chicken watching a card trick.

A kluge trailer dolly setup would allow one to cheat the truck's GVWR but not the GCWR - it's still part of the combined weight of the truck and whatever it's towing. Furthermore, the truck's receiver would have to be rated to pull the weight of the dolly plus the total laden weight of the trailer.

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Old 02-15-2013, 08:26 PM   #7
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This respose really matches your other thread - but also fits here kinda.

How much traveling do you plan to do? If you will be doing a lot of traveling I recommend getting a 5th wheel. If not traveling a lot then a trailer would work.

I looked at all the weights between the 2011 Ram 3500 SRW and the Excel Winslow 33RLE Trailer. By the time you load up for full-time you will have the truck close to all the max weight limits.

Excel also makes real good 5th wheels. Maybe the 34 foot 5er would be better than the 34 foot trailer.

There is not much you can do to increase the towing limits as the manufacturer limits are pretty much carved in stone.

How cold will it be in Oregon? Will you be in the moderate weather area or the cold winter area?

The Excel 5er is rated to -10. Not sure if I believe that but that is what they say.

With SRW you will be limited to trailers and mid size 5th wheels. You could consider the 32 - 35 foot range 5th wheels from just about any manufacturer.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:58 AM   #8
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To the OP: You may find this informaiton helpful.

How Towing Weight Distribution Systems Work
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:15 PM   #9
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Thanks to all for your input....much appreciated. We've come pretty close to deciding on a Bighorn 5er which puts us at about 12,000 lbs dry weight. The Dodge link provided above (thanks) states a 13,400 towing maximum. While we're pretty close to maxing out, we're not planning on towing a lot outside of the initial trip from Montana to Oregon Which is pretty flat the whole way (Willamette Valley - rainy but few below freezing days). We'll travel with empty tanks and put as much in a UHaul behind our other car. What do you all think? Headed for trouble or doable?
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregonbound View Post
Thanks to all for your input....much appreciated. We've come pretty close to deciding on a Bighorn 5er which puts us at about 12,000 lbs dry weight. The Dodge link provided above (thanks) states a 13,400 towing maximum. While we're pretty close to maxing out, we're not planning on towing a lot outside of the initial trip from Montana to Oregon Which is pretty flat the whole way (Willamette Valley - rainy but few below freezing days). We'll travel with empty tanks and put as much in a UHaul behind our other car. What do you all think? Headed for trouble or doable?
I think trouble. First the dry weight will not include any options on the trailer lile A/C, microwave, awnings, etc. It is easy to add 1000# dry weight to a trailer.

Next, your towing maximum is in all reality lower than 13,400#. It is based on a stripped model truck, a 150# driver, no cargo, no hitch and no accessories.

Also, towing rating does not take into consideration a trailer pin weight or tongue weight. A 5er will in loaded state have a pin weight close to 20% of the trailers GVWR. Look at the trailer GVWR. A SRW or 3/4 ton truck will reach GVWR before you reach the trucks GCWR or tow rating.

On a bumper pull, the tongue weight will be around 12% of the trailer GVWR.

So in short, selecting a proper tow vehicle for the trailer is a two part equation....the trucks carrying capacity as well as the towing capacity.

To summarize, your trailer will weight more than 12000# and the trucks real world tow rating will be less than 13,400#. Best you could hope for is you will be right at your tow limits.

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Old 02-16-2013, 10:28 PM   #11
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Thanks Ken. Sounds like it would be pretty risky. I've heard others say that the official towing capacities are "conservative" and that the truck will pull "any 5er on the market". So when I hear feedback like yours, I feel confused and conflicted. Part of it is wondering how these companies continue to sell these units when a 3500 Diesel can't even pull them? I think the majority of opinion however is that I would be putting others and the truck at risk and that my conflict comes from me "wanting" the truck to be able to tow the trailer that we want (I still need to check the tongue weight and that may settle the matter once and for all). Sounds like we'll either have to get a different truck, upgrade to a 4.10 axle ratio (if close to but not over maximums) or settle on something lighter. While it's a hard pill to swallow, better safe than sorry and I really appreciate your input.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:26 PM   #12
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Hi

I towed a 344j Everest that was a few inchs under 38 ft. I had an 08 dodge dually with the 6.7 .I had the DPF and programmer on the truck. It pulled ok fine on the flats. In the
Mountains is was a big load and a tougher time going up the mountain hills. The Montana is basically the same thing. My 5er listed at 12000 pounds empty. The truck and trailer weighed in at Exactly 22000 pounds ready the camp.i was under what the truck could carry but on the GCVWR I was a 1000 pounds over. If I would have had the 4:10 gear ratio I would have been fine but had the 3:73 gear ratio. It's a big load on the truck and most times it seemed fine but I was never very happy when it came to stopping all the weight.they don't stop quick so leave a lot of space in front of you and hope nothing jumps out in front. Good luck with it.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:27 AM   #13
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I tow a Big Country by Heartland with the 7k axles and LR G tires. Its a dream to tow. I never found any problem towing it with my F250 6.0l. These Heartland units are very easy to tow. My previous unit 3500 lbs lighter was harder on fuel. The BH will not be a problem with your 1ton SRW. There are 3 SRW here in the park pulling large Heartlands.
With 30% more air in the tires its like close to 30% less drag according to my torque gauge. I pulled a 30ft TT and it took more torque to keep it at 60mph them my 39ft 5th wheel. So weight has no value when the unit is well build.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:20 AM   #14
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Which 3500 Dodge 6.7L do you have? Different axle and cabs are rated differently. I did not see if your a SRW or DRW.

A word of caution about the folks that that simply post, I pull a Ultra-Super 985 XYZ that is 85' long with my Ford Ranger and it does just fine once I added air bags. They do not post with any weight information to support there claim.

Look at the GVWR of the trailer you are considering. You may never get it up to the fully loaded weight, but that is your potential upper limit.

Best thing to do is to take the truck to the scales, full fuel, passenger load, normal cargo and get the real weight you are working with. Add 150# for the hitch.

I am surprised that your 6.7L, 3.73 axle, 3500 is only rated at 13,400# towing (max). Check the owners manual for the max tow rating for your particular cab and drive train.

Are you limited by the receiver hitch?

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