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Old 08-19-2013, 10:24 AM   #1
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Dry weight vs sticker weight

Hi folks,

My wife and I are really looking to upgrade from a HW popup to a TT for basically more room and to be able to use a shower and toliet without hoping that the campground has a clean public one. We have a combo toliet shower and the tanks just aren't big enough (9 or 12 gal tanks).

I understand from reading the forums that dry weight isn't always reliable and it's best to use sticker weight. I think Jaycos have this where they actually weigh each one after production. I got a 2012 Ford F-150 3.55 axle ratio 4x4. If I'm very careful with the amount of "stuff" I carry, can I comfortably tow a TT with a sticker weight of 6000# or less? Or should I just trade in my tv for an F-250? Basically, I figured that I can tow anything 7000# or less with my current truck with passengers and full tank of gas using the formula the moderator provided. I figure I'd be carrying stuff I have in my old popup like clothes, food, pots,pans,utensils, 4 or 5 lawn chairs and a camping stove and tripod grill ( as long as they add up to 1000# or less).


My F-150 does have a trailer brake and I will get a wdh. I really don't want to go through the hassle of trading it in if I don't have to. It tows my high wall popup very well ( I thinks it at 3800# dry) I almost forget I'm towing something.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:10 AM   #2
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Sounds like your getting all your ducks in a row, by asking questions before you buy.
I am in favor , of looking at trailer GVWR , rather that the " dry weight " often touted by salesmen.
Unfortunately Camping Life Magazine , just changed their web site so I can't run your numbers through their data base, and provide a definitive answer.
Question. Have you ever weighed your truck ;loaded, ready for travel ?
Because the trailer will add ; through hitch weight ; about 800>900 lbs to your rear axle weight , based on 10>12 % of loaded weight on the hitch.
I'll double check the trailer weight vs your trucks rated GCWR, but I think your good, only question remaining would be the rear axle weight, and keeping that below max.
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:22 PM   #3
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Never weighed my TV at scale. Probably best I should. Here are my other truck stats in case it helps:

Gcwr: 13500
Gvwr: 7350
Rear gawr: 3850
Maximum tow rating: 7700 ( if this means anything )
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:37 PM   #4
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Your MAX tow is calculated with an empty ( only 145 lb. driver ) truck. so that is not a real world number.
Your GCWR of 13,500 vs Truck GVWR of 7350 gives you a trailer weight of 6150. so your good with a 6,000 GVWR on the trailer ; to stay within the GCWR limit.
So the number you have to worry about is actual rear axle weight vs RAWR.
If you don't currently have a loaded, or empty rear axle weight, it would be a good idea to get one, because , the weight of the hitch of the trailer and your insert and bars , could bring you over the RAWR of 3850, overloading the axle , springs and quite possibly the tires.
Remember it is possible to stay within your trucks GVWR, & GCWR and still be over the RAWR.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:58 PM   #5
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F150 4x4 and Jayco trailer

Hi
Think I can help a bit here with an example for you
I have 2013 F150 FX4 Screw 5.5 box and 2012 Jayco Jayflight 22fb
Truck weighs in with just the wife and I and full tank of fuel and a bit of stuff in the box with Equilizer Brand hitch on the truck @ 6553lbs
In the FX4 line we are likely about as heavy as this truck comes stock
with Bed liner and Tonneau cover.

Our trailer GVWR is 6500 lbs but I will never ever load it that heavy!
You can see why below!
Loaded weight is about 5100lbs give or take 20 lbs.
That is all tanks empty and loaded ready to camp
10-12% tongue weight on the truck takes me to 510/612 lbs on the hitch
Door sticker on the truck says GVWR is 7200lbs so
6553lbs + 510= 7063 lbs
6553lbs + 612= 7165 lbs
So I am under the GVWR for my truck by a few lbs but not many!

That is just the 2 of us No one in the rear seats of the Screw!
Add 3 small grandkids and their stuff and we are over slightly

These trucks are heavier than you think when you add all the toys in them
Jayco trailers are nice trailers We really like ours BUT....

If I was buying again I would look for a little lighter trailer or buy the truck with more GVWR as in Max Tow or Possibly the Max Tow with HD Payload
Give you a little more wiggle room on the trailer tongue weight
Our trailer is the aluminum sided version
Pretty sure the Fiberglass sided trailers are a little lighter.

Now does the truck pull the trailer ok Yep lots of horses for my trailer
Does it stay stable on the road... So far no issues

RRII
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:08 PM   #6
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Hi Skip426,


Thanks for the reply. The problem with 6000 lbs or less is that they don't make trailers that have space, headroom for adults and bunk beds for kids in that weight range from what I can tell. They got the hybrids but I want to get away from maintaining the canvas and dealing with condensation from it. Just looking for hard sides all around. Does such a thing exist out there? Maybe I'm too focused on the Jayco brand but I fear that anything lighter and any other brand will be put together by staples instead of screws.

Thanks again.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:30 PM   #7
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Hmm...now I'm starting to understand why some take risks with towing. They want the bigger trailer but don't want the bigger tow vehicle (yet).

The dealer did tell me something that made sense to me: if the dry weight was say 5000# and I towed with 1000# worth of stuff, wouldn't I still be in the 6000# range for safe towing?

Thoughts?
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:32 PM   #8
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Given what you want in a trailer you would do yourself a favour by upgrading your TV it seems to me.

Whats the GCWR of your TV?
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:58 PM   #9
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It all comes back to big trailer require big trucks and they make little trailers for little trucks.

If you want to enjoy a larger RV, face up to the fact that you will need a larger truck.

Ken
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:31 PM   #10
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I think I found something in the TT forum that also may be true:

"
The brochure and dry weights are useless for a trailer. They do not include any item listed as an option....A/C, microwave, Television, awning, batteries, propane, stabilizers, etc. Typically you will be 750# over the "dry weight" or more."

Can this statement be verified as truth without actually going to a weigh scale? I really want to understand this but I know there are a lot of statements out there that sound confusing as well. I know I'm thinking out loud here but I also want clear understanding.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:54 AM   #11
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As noted, the dry brochure weight is a base trailer and NO options.

You start adding TV's, microwaves, etc and some of your supplies, the weight comes up faster than you think.

Just gather a few things around the house and weigh them to get an idea.

Ken
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:59 AM   #12
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[QUOTE=Vcarbona;1693236]I think I found something in the TT forum that also may be true:
The brochure and dry weights are useless for a trailer. They do not include any item listed as an option....A/C, microwave, Television, awning, batteries, propane, stabilizers, etc. Typically you will be 750# over the "dry weight" or more."
QUOTE]
I'm not aware of all the regulations, that the RV manufacturers have to operate under, but JMHO, there is room for a " Truth In Advertising "
law, to deal with brochure weights.
In the back of the paper work, that I received when I bought my coach, was a complete list of the weight of every option available, right down to ; 1 lb. ; for a C/B radio prep package.
The weight of options , reduced the base unit's 5,000lb payload, down to 3745lbs , for my rig.
If every manufacturer was required to provide an accurate dry weight of a base unit and a complete list of the individual units options , with weights.
That would go a long way to helping buyers, make informed decisions, about what they can tow, or load into the unit they purchase.
I believe that another members statement that " If all RVs were called over the weight scales, the way commercial trucks are, that over 1/2 would be pulled off the road for being overweight." is, unfortunately, very true.
Right now about all you can do , is make an actual weighing of the unit part of the purchase agreement. If the dealer won't allow you to take the unit out to weigh it , take your business elsewhere.
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcarbona View Post
Hmm...now I'm starting to understand why some take risks with towing. They want the bigger trailer but don't want the bigger tow vehicle (yet).

The dealer did tell me something that made sense to me: if the dry weight was say 5000# and I towed with 1000# worth of stuff, wouldn't I still be in the 6000# range for safe towing?

Thoughts?
This goes straight back to having to trust the advertised " Dry Weight".
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcarbona View Post
Never weighed my TV at scale. Probably best I should. Here are my other truck stats in case it helps:

Gcwr: 13500
Gvwr: 7350
Rear gawr: 3850
Maximum tow rating: 7700 ( if this means anything )
The tow rating is overstated by a lot. Ignore it and compute your own:

GCWR minus the actual wet and loaded tow vehicle (TV) weight will give you the actual tow rating. But even the actual tow rating is probably overstated because it ignores hitch weight. And hitch weight is probably your limiter.

Here's my suggestion:

Load the TV with all the people, pets, tools, weight-distributing hitch head and shank, and anything else that will be in it when towing.

-- Go to a truck stop that has a certified automated truck scale such as a CAT scale or J-scale.

-- Fill up with gas and weigh the wet and loaded TV.

-- Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded TV from the GVWR of the TV and the answer is the maximum wet and loaded hitch weight of any TT you want to consider.

-- Divide that max hitch weight by 0.15 (15%) and the answer is the max GVWR of any TT you want to consider.

-- DO NOT play the game of trying to calculate the max weight of the wet and loaded trailer you can tow without being overloaded, by beginning with dry weight or shipping weight. You'll under-estimate every time. If your family is like 90% of other families, you'll have the TT loaded to near the GVWR by the middle of the third camping trip. So use the GVWR of the TT as your estimate of the weight of the wet and loaded TT.

Hitch weight varies from about 12% to 15% of gross trailer weight. My TT has wet and loaded hitch weight of slightly more than 15%. Assume your TT will have 15% hitch weight too. If you use 10% or 12% estimate of hitch weight, then you have a good chance of being overloaded when on the road with a wet and loaded camper trailer.

Your GVWR of 7,350 is 250 pounds more than the GVWR of my 2012 F-150. But your 4x4 weighs about 250 pounds more than my 4x2, so we have about the same net payload. My F-150 is slightly overloaded with my TT that has a wet and loaded weight of less than 5,000 pounds. So if your calculations result in a trailer GVWR more than about 5,000 pounds, you probably did something wrong.

As to finding a bunkhouse TT that matches your TV, that's tough. As you saw, Jayco doesn't have one with a slide, walk-around master bed, and GVWR of 5,000 pounds or less. Even my Skyline Nomad Joey 196S has GVWR of 5,600, and it's not a bunkhouse. The Skyline Nomad bunkhouse model 237 would be a great TT for you if you can do without a slide. It has the normal 24' box plus another 4' hitch, so it's called a 28' footer. But it has a GVWR of 6,200 and would probably result in your being overloaded when wet and loaded on the road.
Product Page | Skyline Recreational Vehicles

Jayco does have one bunkhouse less than 5,000 pounds GVWR that has a walk-around queen-size bed for Mom and Dad as well as bunks for the kids. No slide, so every one has to stay seated or in bed while Mom is in the kitchen. Look at floorplan 228.
Floorplans - Jay Feather Ultra Lite Travel Trailers - Jayco

Move up to the Jayco bunkhouse with a slide, Jay Flight Swift Floorplan 267BHS, and the GVWR goes up to 7,500. The only F-150 that could tow that TT without being overloaded would have both the max tow pkg and the HD Payload pkg. That's why they make F-250s.
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