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Old 09-18-2011, 05:37 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by wingnut60 View Post
Would you mind naming some of the units you have found this on?
Not at all!
But my friend is keeping the list- I'm just his helper.
I'll get that info from him when we get together to go look next week!

Francesca
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Old 09-18-2011, 07:48 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca
Thanks!
This helps-
I asked because I'm helping a friend shop, and we're running into a LOT of dual axle units that start out with distressingly low tongue weights, even allowing for added LP tanks and battery...
These are NEW units, too- what are manufacturers thinking???
We'll strike those off the "might buy" list!

Francesca
If you want heavy tongue weight, look at the Forest River Shasta Revere 21 FBS. 750 lbs tongue weight thwnks to the big slide.
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:31 PM   #17
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Keep in mind listed tongue weight is for an unloaded trailer (UVW). To calculate the fully-loaded tongue weight, find the percentage of tongue weight to UVW, multipy the GVW by that percentage, not dead-on but close enough for our purposes.
To determine the tongue weight at home, sneak your bathroom scales out of the house, find a 2X10 X 6', and a solid block the same thickness as the scale or sit the scale on a block, just so both ends are the same height. Zero scales to include the board weight. Place the tongue jack 2' from the scale-end of the board. Calculate the weight using geometry.
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:51 PM   #18
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If you want heavy tongue weight, look at the Forest River Shasta Revere 21 FBS. 750 lbs tongue weight thwnks to the big slide.
He's not necessarily looking for a heavy tongue- he just wants it to be the right proportions...
We haven't looked at the Revere model you mention, but we did look at a Revere 27BHS like the one at Forest River 2012 SHASTA Revere 27BHS LE
It's a good example of what we've been seeing...the gross weight is 9576 lbs. and the "hitch weight"- that's tongue, right?- is only 776 lbs.

Isn't that too light for the size of the trailer???


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Old 09-19-2011, 07:26 AM   #19
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He's not necessarily looking for a heavy tongue- he just wants it to be the right proportions...
We haven't looked at the Revere model you mention, but we did look at a Revere 27BHS like the one at Forest River 2012 SHASTA Revere 27BHS LE
It's a good example of what we've been seeing...the gross weight is 9576 lbs. and the "hitch weight"- that's tongue, right?- is only 776 lbs.
Isn't that too light for the size of the trailer???
Francesca
9576 is the gross trailer weight and that would be the very maximum you'd ever have the trailer at. 6191 is dry weight and gross weight 9576. You'd probably be around 8000 loaded so that tongue weight isn't too far off, just load mostly up front.
The model I'm telling you about is 7750 lbs gross weight
5370lbs dry. Tongue weight of 750. What worries me with this is this is a dry tongue weight. I think lower than that would be better?
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Old 09-19-2011, 12:03 PM   #20
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9576 is the gross trailer weight and that would be the very maximum you'd ever have the trailer at. 6191 is dry weight and gross weight 9576. You'd probably be around 8000 loaded so that tongue weight isn't too far off, just load mostly up front.
The model I'm telling you about is 7750 lbs gross weight
5370lbs dry. Tongue weight of 750. What worries me with this is this is a dry tongue weight. I think lower than that would be better?
Yeah-
He's taking loading into consideration, but loading depends a lot on how the rig's configured.
He's a worst-case scenario type!
Very methodical, especially about things like this.
Some might say he's overthinking it, but a local fellow was killed by "sway" a few years ago, and that really stuck in our heads!
Sequim man dies after I-90 crash -- Port Angeles Port Townsend Sequim Forks Jefferson County Clallam County Olympic Peninsula Daily news
Another thing we're running into is where water's carried...
I realize few people always have all their tanks full, but it's certainly possible.
That rig can carry around 1,000 lbs of water/wastewater. My pal says it's all behind the axles, too, though I don't see that in the specs.
If it is, that's gonna have a negative effect on tongue weight...

Francesca
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:39 PM   #21
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I feel the same way. Safety first.
Can this sort of thing still happen with weight distribution hitch and anti sway control like reese dual cam?

Let us know what he gets
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:28 PM   #22
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I feel the same way. Safety first.
Can this sort of thing still happen with weight distribution hitch and anti sway control like reese dual cam?

Let us know what he gets
Hi, Boubou

My understanding is that the trailer in the crash was equipped with a so-called anti sway device- I don't know what brand.
I think there's a lot of misunderstanding of how sway control devices work- while they do help to "control" sway when it occurs, they don't eliminate the forces causing it.
And there are limits to their capacity to "correct" trailer oscillation.
My pal wants to do everything possible to prevent the conditions that cause sway from occurring in the first place.

Hence the concern about tongue weight.

Francesca
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:58 PM   #23
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A sway control and weight distribution hitch is pretty much worthless if not set up correctly. Most of the dealers do a mediocre to poor job of setting up the hitch correctly. You will do better to read the hitch instructions and learn to do this yourself.

A hitch set for a dry and empty trailer will not be correct for a loaded trailer. You will get some folks saying they never use WD or SC and do OK. In theory, a perfectly balanced trailer will not sway in a perfect world. The problem is we do not live in a perfect world and all it takes is on wind just or a dip and roll in the road and you will sway. With nothing to stop or dampen the sway, it can get out of control.

Tongue weight as a percentage of the trailer weight will help to keep it more stable. Also tongue weight is important to keep from overloading the loaded tow vehicle.

Ken
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:23 PM   #24
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It should be noted that with a properly loaded, balanced trailer, sway very rarely occurs at speeds of 55 and below, except possibly on downhill grades.
That's one of the reasons that States like California have a 55 mph speed limit on trailers.

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Old 09-19-2011, 08:27 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Francesca
It should be noted that with a properly loaded, balanced trailer, sway very rarely occurs at speeds of 55 and below, except possibly on downhill grades.
That's one of the reasons that States like California have a 55 mph speed limit on trailers.

Francesca
Great info! We"llbe sure no to drive faster than 55 mph
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:46 PM   #26
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Great info! We"llbe sure no to drive faster than 55 mph
I've never used any other sway control than just learning to "drive" my trailer/tow combo.
Speed control works really well for me- I've been towing the same trailer for so long that I can anticipate the conditions that might induce sway- it's pretty scary if you've ever experienced it!
The other most important thing to do is to learn how to use the trailer brakes- they're the best sway control you can ask for...in fact when properly used they really do eliminate sway.
Applying them manually without applying the vehicle brakes will straighten out the trailer lickety-split- but you must do so at the first hint of sway.
Ease off the accelerator, and the trailer's drag will bring you back to a safe speed...

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Old 09-19-2011, 08:50 PM   #27
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I've never used any other sway control than just learning to "drive" my trailer/tow combo.
Speed control works really well for me- I've been towing the same trailer for so long that I can anticipate the conditions that might induce sway- it's pretty scary if you've ever experienced it!
The other most important thing to do is to learn how to use the trailer brakes- they're the best sway control you can ask for...
Applying them manually without applying the vehicle brakes will straighten out the trailer lickety-split- but you must do so at the first hint of sway.
Ease off the accelerator, and the trailer's drag will bring you back to a safe speed...

Francesca
Thank you so much for the tips. I'm learning a lot from all of you.
So 55 mph/hr max speed, apply tt brakes at any sign of sway (and release gas pedal )
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:55 PM   #28
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Thank you so much for the tips. I'm learning a lot from all of you.
So 55 mph/hr max speed, apply tt brakes at any sign of sway (and release gas pedal )
And proper loading!
Don't forget that!
Here's a link to a "game" that's kind of fun- it's at a British "caravan" site, and it has you "load" a trailer and then rates you on how well you've done in terms of achieving stability...
Bailey of Bristol - Caravan Stability Studies

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