Engine size for 14,500 GVW 5th wheel?

[BDHunter]

We're seriously thinking of moving from a MH to a 5th wheel, and my macho friends say we need a 1-ton pickup (Dodge Ram 3500?) for a 5th wheel with ~14,500 GVW. I thought a Dodge 2500, which is rated for 25,000 towing weight would be sufficient? What am I missing? Thanks - I know there's tons of experts out there!

[09 harley]

For the price difference between a 3/4 and 1 ton only being 2 or 3 hundred dollars go for the one ton. The extra capacity is a further safety margin.

[caissiel]

On paper. ....

[earlvillestu]

It's not towing capacity. It's the truck's GVWR and RAWR. You need to know what reserve capacity you will have for each assuming 20% or so of the trailer's weight will be on the pin.

[jesilvas]

Originally Posted by BDHunter

We're seriously thinking of moving from a MH to a 5th wheel, and my macho friends say we need a 1-ton pickup (Dodge Ram 3500?) for a 5th wheel with ~14,500 GVW. I thought a Dodge 2500, which is rated for 25,000 towing weight would be sufficient? What am I missing? Thanks - I know there's tons of experts out there!

You might have read or heard that on a commercial to sucker people into buying the truck.

You have to look at a lot of different things. Engine, transmission, rear axle ratio and subsequent weight rating, truck's maximum weight rating, towing packages, etc.

Those "macho" friends may be just that, but they may have also done a lot of research and feel like being safe rather than sorry. Just a thought.

[wandering1]

Good question. Find the 5th wheel first. How much does the 5th wheel weigh? Look at the manufacturers towing specs for the tow vehicles and pick one that will handle the 5th wheel. Forget about personal opinions, get the facts. You are legally responsible for having an adequate tow vehicle.

http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/towing_guide/

[tuffr2]

Typically a 3/4 ton truck simply can not carry the weight of everything you need to put in the truck. That includes full fuel, people, dog, dog food, 150lb. 5th wheel hitch, lawn chairs, firewood, bikes, clothes, shoes/boots, water, possible generator, heavy electric cord, etc.etc. Anyway - when the truck is loaded and w/o the 5th wheel will weight 8,500lbs. Typically a 3/4 ton truck can weigh a total of 10,000lbs. So that leaves 1,500lbs. for pin weight of the 5th wheel.

That means you can carry an approx. 7,500lb. 5th wheel since it will have a pin weight of 1,500lbs.

Note...it is what you can carry. Not what you can tow.

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by BDHunter

I thought a Dodge 2500, which is rated for 25,000 towing weight would be sufficient? What am I missing?

You misread something. That 25,000 number is probably the GCWR of the truck. That's the maximum combined total weight of the wet and loaded truck and trailer. The "tow rating" is the GCWR minus the weight of the truck. I don't have RAM numbers, so I'll use 2015 Ford numbers.

2015 F-250 diesel CrewCab 4x4 has GCWR of 23,500 pounds, and a "tow rating" of 14,000 pounds.

You're missing the fact that the tow rating is only one of several specs you must use so you don't wind up overloaded when you get on the road.
Read the fine print about that 23,500 pound combined truck and trailer weight and the 14,000 pound towing weight. The fine print in the towing guide says you should NEVER exceed the GCWR, GVWR or GAWRs of the tow vehicle.

The GCWR, GVWR, and GAWRs are hard numbers that you should never exceed. Other ratings such as tow ratings and payload ratings are soft numbers that depend on how much weight of people and stuff you haul in the truck when towing.

Almost always, the GVWR of the tow vehicle is your limiter as to how heavy a trailer you can tow without being overloaded. Using the 2015 Ford specs, the GVWR is 10,000 pounds, and the wet and loaded truck with 5er hitch, driver, passenger, some tools, and maybe a couple of rug rats will weigh around 8,500 pounds. That leaves a max of 1,500 pounds for hitch weight before you're overloaded. That 14,500-pound trailer you mentioned will have hitch weigh of about 17 to 20 percent of gross trailer weight. Use 20% to be safe, and your hitch weight will be 2,900 pounds when the trailer grosses 14.5K.

1,400 pounds overloaded. That's what I call severely overloaded. And GM and RAM 2500 specs are close to the same as the Ford specs.

So in a nutshell, a GM or Ram 2500 or Ford F-250 ain't enough truck for that trailer.

Go up one notch to the F-350 with single rear wheels (SRW). It has 1500 pounds more GVWR, so you might get by with that truck if you don't haul much weight in the truck. But no campfire wood, no heavy toolbox, no auxiliary fuel tank. No, No, No. So with all the no words, I'd be much happier with a dually. And I'll bet you would too.

BTW, the "one ton" SRW will cost only a few hundred bucks more than the 250/2500. But the duallies are more expensive. Continuing to use Ford as the example, the least expensive base price with no options,

F-250 = $31,810

F-350 SRW = $32,705

F-350 DRW = $33,910

[BDHunter]

You all are the best. As we journey to our decision of converting from MH to 5th Wheel, this is incredibly helpful!!!

[Cummins12V98]

Get the RAM Dually with the 4:10's and Aisin trans. You will thank me! It has a SAE J2807 rating of 37,800# combined.

You will be able to tow most any RV with confidence.

[fvstringpicker]

Originally Posted by 09 harley

For the price difference between a 3/4 and 1 ton only being 2 or 3 hundred dollars go for the one ton. The extra capacity is a further safety margin.

With only two to three hundred dollars difference between the two, I can't help but wonder what the one ton has that the three quarter doesn't.

[jimcumminsw]

Originally Posted by BDHunter

We're seriously thinking of moving from a MH to a 5th wheel, and my macho friends say we need a 1-ton pickup (Dodge Ram 3500?) for a 5th wheel with ~14,500 GVW. I thought a Dodge 2500, which is rated for 25,000 towing weight would be sufficient? What am I missing? Thanks - I know there's tons of experts out there!

What year Ram trucks are you looking at? This will make a total difference on your TV. With the Ram trucks the powertrain is identical between the 3500 and 2500 trucks for certain years.

With the new 2500 trucks for 2015 they are rated to pull a maximum trailer weight of 17,000 LBS and could be slightly higher depending on cab style, bed style and drivetrain. The GAWR for the rear axle is rated at 6,000 LBS with a GCRW of 25,300 LBS; this too will change slightly on cab style bed style and powertrain configuration.

The truck is certified to meet SAE J2807 towing standard. So this truck could and would pull the 14,500 LBS camper according to the RAM engineers and not the weight police.

You will also have an improved ride with the 2500 Ram over the 3500 Ram since the rear wheel suspension has been changed and they have done away with the leaf springs on this truck.

I have attached the 2015 Ram Body Builders Guide for your reference. This is a free PDF file that works will with internet explore and Adobe Reader.
http://www.rambodybuilder.com/year.pdf

Jim W.

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by fvstringpicker

With only two to three hundred dollars difference between the two, I can't help but wonder what the one ton has that the three quarter doesn't.

Note my earlier post. On a Ford, it's over $800 more MSRP for the F-350 SRW. Different rear axle and rear springs is about all the difference you'll find.

But the F-350 DRW "Dooley", which is a real one-ton dually, is a much stronger animal and lists for more than $2000 more than an F-250.

[jacknife]

I have a 14 3500 Srw If your 5th wheel is going to weigh 14000 empty figure 15,500 loaded to 16,000 I would difinatly rhink about a dually. Jmo