Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-02-2015, 11:19 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
BDHunter's Avatar
 
Mid Atlantic Campers
Forest River Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Myrtle Beach
Posts: 27
Engine size for 14,500 GVW 5th wheel?

We're seriously thinking of moving from a MH to a 5th wheel, and my macho friends say we need a 1-ton pickup (Dodge Ram 3500?) for a 5th wheel with ~14,500 GVW. I thought a Dodge 2500, which is rated for 25,000 towing weight would be sufficient? What am I missing? Thanks - I know there's tons of experts out there!
__________________

__________________
Barb & Mike - Two Air Force Retirees
2018 Navion 24V
BDHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-03-2015, 12:12 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,275
For the price difference between a 3/4 and 1 ton only being 2 or 3 hundred dollars go for the one ton. The extra capacity is a further safety margin.
__________________

__________________
09 harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 03:15 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
caissiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,312
On paper. ....
__________________
Barbara and Laurent, Hartland Big Country 3500RL. 39 ft long and 15500 GVW.
2005 Ford F250 SD, XL F250 4x4, Long Box, 6.0L Diesel, 6 Speed Stick, Hypertech Max Energy for Fuel mileage of 21 MPusG empty, 12.6 MPusG pulling the BC. ScangaugeII for display..
caissiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 05:26 AM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 9
It's not towing capacity. It's the truck's GVWR and RAWR. You need to know what reserve capacity you will have for each assuming 20% or so of the trailer's weight will be on the pin.
__________________
earlvillestu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 07:06 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHunter View Post
We're seriously thinking of moving from a MH to a 5th wheel, and my macho friends say we need a 1-ton pickup (Dodge Ram 3500?) for a 5th wheel with ~14,500 GVW. I thought a Dodge 2500, which is rated for 25,000 towing weight would be sufficient? What am I missing? Thanks - I know there's tons of experts out there!
You might have read or heard that on a commercial to sucker people into buying the truck.

You have to look at a lot of different things. Engine, transmission, rear axle ratio and subsequent weight rating, truck's maximum weight rating, towing packages, etc.

Those "macho" friends may be just that, but they may have also done a lot of research and feel like being safe rather than sorry. Just a thought.
__________________
jesilvas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 07:50 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
wandering1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 450
Send a message via ICQ to wandering1
Good question. Find the 5th wheel first. How much does the 5th wheel weigh? Look at the manufacturers towing specs for the tow vehicles and pick one that will handle the 5th wheel. Forget about personal opinions, get the facts. You are legally responsible for having an adequate tow vehicle.

http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/towing_guide/
__________________
Wandering1
wandering1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 09:06 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
tuffr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Posts: 2,454
Typically a 3/4 ton truck simply can not carry the weight of everything you need to put in the truck. That includes full fuel, people, dog, dog food, 150lb. 5th wheel hitch, lawn chairs, firewood, bikes, clothes, shoes/boots, water, possible generator, heavy electric cord, etc.etc. Anyway - when the truck is loaded and w/o the 5th wheel will weight 8,500lbs. Typically a 3/4 ton truck can weigh a total of 10,000lbs. So that leaves 1,500lbs. for pin weight of the 5th wheel.

That means you can carry an approx. 7,500lb. 5th wheel since it will have a pin weight of 1,500lbs.

Note...it is what you can carry. Not what you can tow.
__________________
tuffr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 09:45 AM   #8
Moderator Emeritus
 
SmokeyWren's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midland County, Texas
Posts: 3,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHunter View Post
I thought a Dodge 2500, which is rated for 25,000 towing weight would be sufficient? What am I missing?
You misread something. That 25,000 number is probably the GCWR of the truck. That's the maximum combined total weight of the wet and loaded truck and trailer. The "tow rating" is the GCWR minus the weight of the truck. I don't have RAM numbers, so I'll use 2015 Ford numbers.

2015 F-250 diesel CrewCab 4x4 has GCWR of 23,500 pounds, and a "tow rating" of 14,000 pounds.

You're missing the fact that the tow rating is only one of several specs you must use so you don't wind up overloaded when you get on the road.
Read the fine print about that 23,500 pound combined truck and trailer weight and the 14,000 pound towing weight. The fine print in the towing guide says you should NEVER exceed the GCWR, GVWR or GAWRs of the tow vehicle.

The GCWR, GVWR, and GAWRs are hard numbers that you should never exceed. Other ratings such as tow ratings and payload ratings are soft numbers that depend on how much weight of people and stuff you haul in the truck when towing.

Almost always, the GVWR of the tow vehicle is your limiter as to how heavy a trailer you can tow without being overloaded. Using the 2015 Ford specs, the GVWR is 10,000 pounds, and the wet and loaded truck with 5er hitch, driver, passenger, some tools, and maybe a couple of rug rats will weigh around 8,500 pounds. That leaves a max of 1,500 pounds for hitch weight before you're overloaded. That 14,500-pound trailer you mentioned will have hitch weigh of about 17 to 20 percent of gross trailer weight. Use 20% to be safe, and your hitch weight will be 2,900 pounds when the trailer grosses 14.5K.

1,400 pounds overloaded. That's what I call severely overloaded. And GM and RAM 2500 specs are close to the same as the Ford specs.

So in a nutshell, a GM or Ram 2500 or Ford F-250 ain't enough truck for that trailer.

Go up one notch to the F-350 with single rear wheels (SRW). It has 1500 pounds more GVWR, so you might get by with that truck if you don't haul much weight in the truck. But no campfire wood, no heavy toolbox, no auxiliary fuel tank. No, No, No. So with all the no words, I'd be much happier with a dually. And I'll bet you would too.

BTW, the "one ton" SRW will cost only a few hundred bucks more than the 250/2500. But the duallies are more expensive. Continuing to use Ford as the example, the least expensive base price with no options,

F-250 = $31,810

F-350 SRW = $32,705

F-350 DRW = $33,910
__________________
Grumpy ole man with over 50 years towing experience. Now my heaviest trailer is a 7,000-pound enclosed cargo trailer, RV is a 5,600 pound Skyline Nomad Joey 196S, and my tow vehicle is a 2012 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost SuperCrew.
SmokeyWren is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 09:53 AM   #9
Junior Member
 
BDHunter's Avatar
 
Mid Atlantic Campers
Forest River Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Myrtle Beach
Posts: 27
You all are the best. As we journey to our decision of converting from MH to 5th Wheel, this is incredibly helpful!!!
__________________
Barb & Mike - Two Air Force Retirees
2018 Navion 24V
BDHunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 10:25 AM   #10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,346
Get the RAM Dually with the 4:10's and Aisin trans. You will thank me! It has a SAE J2807 rating of 37,800# combined.

You will be able to tow most any RV with confidence.
__________________
Cummins12V98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 12:54 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by 09 harley View Post
For the price difference between a 3/4 and 1 ton only being 2 or 3 hundred dollars go for the one ton. The extra capacity is a further safety margin.
With only two to three hundred dollars difference between the two, I can't help but wonder what the one ton has that the three quarter doesn't.
__________________
fvstringpicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 02:51 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
jimcumminsw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oswego IL
Posts: 1,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHunter View Post
We're seriously thinking of moving from a MH to a 5th wheel, and my macho friends say we need a 1-ton pickup (Dodge Ram 3500?) for a 5th wheel with ~14,500 GVW. I thought a Dodge 2500, which is rated for 25,000 towing weight would be sufficient? What am I missing? Thanks - I know there's tons of experts out there!
What year Ram trucks are you looking at? This will make a total difference on your TV. With the Ram trucks the powertrain is identical between the 3500 and 2500 trucks for certain years.

With the new 2500 trucks for 2015 they are rated to pull a maximum trailer weight of 17,000 LBS and could be slightly higher depending on cab style, bed style and drivetrain. The GAWR for the rear axle is rated at 6,000 LBS with a GCRW of 25,300 LBS; this too will change slightly on cab style bed style and powertrain configuration.

The truck is certified to meet SAE J2807 towing standard. So this truck could and would pull the 14,500 LBS camper according to the RAM engineers and not the weight police.

You will also have an improved ride with the 2500 Ram over the 3500 Ram since the rear wheel suspension has been changed and they have done away with the leaf springs on this truck.

I have attached the 2015 Ram Body Builders Guide for your reference. This is a free PDF file that works will with internet explore and Adobe Reader.
http://www.rambodybuilder.com/year.pdf

Jim W.
__________________
Jim & Jill
Sold: 2010 318SAB Cougar:New: 2016 Cedar Creek 34RL. 2008 Dodge 6.7LCummins the original 6.7L engine, w/68RFE Auto
jimcumminsw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 02:57 PM   #13
Moderator Emeritus
 
SmokeyWren's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midland County, Texas
Posts: 3,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by fvstringpicker View Post
With only two to three hundred dollars difference between the two, I can't help but wonder what the one ton has that the three quarter doesn't.
Note my earlier post. On a Ford, it's over $800 more MSRP for the F-350 SRW. Different rear axle and rear springs is about all the difference you'll find.

But the F-350 DRW "Dooley", which is a real one-ton dually, is a much stronger animal and lists for more than $2000 more than an F-250.
__________________
SmokeyWren is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2015, 03:13 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
jacknife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 702
I have a 14 3500 Srw If your 5th wheel is going to weigh 14000 empty figure 15,500 loaded to 16,000 I would difinatly rhink about a dually. Jmo
__________________

__________________
jacknife is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
5th wheel, engine



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Winnebago Destination 5th Wheel update mcumbie Winnebago Industries Owner's Forum 17 11-02-2015 11:01 PM
Who is towing a 5th wheel with a 1/2 ton? ykcamom Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 22 01-07-2015 02:11 PM
Ultra-Fab Trailair v. MOR/ryde 5th Wheel King Pin Box 7.3diesel 5th Wheel Discussion 7 10-03-2014 11:16 AM
5th wheel - strength, durability, with lift? Palmeris Full-Timers 6 03-17-2014 12:16 PM
Any 5th Wheel Rentals? SmilinJack 5th Wheel Discussion 8 03-09-2014 07:31 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.