Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-24-2016, 08:11 AM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4
Expedition vs Expedition El

Hi There,

My wife and I purchased a Jayco Jayflight SLX 267BHSW last spring. We have been towing it with a 2004 F150 Screw lariat......not happy with the 4 speed auto. We have 4 kids and have been looking to trade in our minivan for an Expedition. The trailer has a dry weight of 5500 lbs and GVWR of 7000 lbs. I have not been able to weigh it loaded for camping so I usually use the 7000 lbs mark for my calculations. The box is 26.7ft and tongue to bumper is 29.11ft.

The expedition would be my wife's daily driver. We almost had a deal on a 2010 Expedition El with max tow package but lost out on that due to an inexperienced salesman. The El versions of the Expedition are hard to come by in my area, usually if there are any for sale they have high mileage. From what I have been reading online I would be better with El due to the longer wheelbase however my question is....does anyone tow a similar length trailer with the regular wheelbase expedition? Currently I have a WDH and use 2 friction sway bars, I know ford added the sway control to the expeditions in 2010 but if I were to go with either I plan on upgrading to a straight line WDH with sway control.
__________________

__________________
dclayton is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-24-2016, 09:47 AM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
SmokeyWren's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midland County, Texas
Posts: 3,326


The Expedition and Expedition EL have the same drivetrain, so the big difference is interior room resulting from the stretched wheelbase.

Quote:
The trailer has a dry weight of 5500 lbs and GVWR of 7000 lbs.
Too much trailer for an Expedition. You'll be overloaded over the payload capacity of the SUV because of hitch weight. If you load the trailer to only 6,000 pounds, then average tongue weight of 13% would be 720 pounds. Add another 50 pounds for a Strait-Line WD hitch and your total hitch weight would be around 770 pounds.

With your family and stuff on board that SUV, you won't have enough unused payload capacity to haul 770 pounds of hitch weight without being overloaded.

Nobody still makes an SUV that can tow that trailer without being overloaded. Way back when you could shop for either an Excursion or a GM 2500 with diesel engine that would work just fine for that trailer. But both of those are now long in the tooth as used tow vehicles.

So Your best bet would be to go for a CrewCab pickup and "make do". Or a new Ford Transit passenger van with enough GVWR and GCWR to tow a 7k TT without being overloaded. Note in the "build and price" website, optional tow ratings up to 7,500 pounds are available. Be certain you specify the 7,500 pound tow rating, because standard is much less.
http://shop.ford.com/build/transitva...rucks#/select/
__________________

__________________
Grumpy ole man with over 50 years towing experience. Now my heaviest trailer is a 7,000-pound enclosed cargo trailer, RV is a 5,600 pound Skyline Nomad Joey 196S, and my tow vehicle is a 2012 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost SuperCrew.
SmokeyWren is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 10:55 AM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4
I know I would be close to max payload. the specs on the Expedition I see are GVW 7239lbs, Curb weight of 5569lbs and 1670 lbs of payload. At 7000lbs and 12% tongue weight would be 840lbs.

Lets say the expy is more like 5800lbs with options + 840lbs tw + 50lbs hitch = 6690 lbs......leaves 549lbs for wife + children.

Interesting though that I always hear an excursion would be better. Here are the specs I see for the a 2005 diesel excursion (from Edmunds.com)

GVW 8900lbs, Curb Weight 7341lbs and 1559 lbs payload......doesn't look any better
__________________
dclayton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 11:24 AM   #4
Member
 
SouthpawHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 77
OP, you seem to have some good knowledge on the subject of towing weights and payloads, so you are well on your way to making an informed decision.

Where do you plan on towing? How often?

If towing in hills and/or mountains, the Expy won't be enough. If towing on flat ground and 3-4 trips locally per year, sounds like you'll be "ok" if you pack accordingly and put most of your stuff in the trailer.
__________________
Palomino SolAire 307QBDSK
2016 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, 6.0L, CC, 4.10
SouthpawHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 11:56 AM   #5
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4
Mostly towing locally in the northwest. We do have a 2000 mile trip this summer and Vancouver to Disneyland next spring. Even with the 2000 mile trip this summer I would bet we would do less than 3000 miles towing this year. I think the weights will be close but without getting the truck on a scale during a test drive it's just and educated guess at this point. I guess I am mostly concerned of the trailer swaying the truck and that is why I think the longer wheelbase would be better.....just don't know if it's necessary. The EL version of truck being so rare with decent mileage is looking like it may cost an 5-10k.
__________________
dclayton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 12:03 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
Or a new Ford Transit passenger van with enough GVWR and GCWR to tow a 7k TT without being overloaded. Note in the "build and price" website, optional tow ratings up to 7,500 pounds are available. Be certain you specify the 7,500 pound tow rating, because standard is much less.
2016 Ford Transit VanWagon - Build & Price
If you dig into the specs, only the van version of the Transit can tow 7500 lbs, and the GCWR is so low (13k) that the van better be mostly empty. The wagon version is limited to 5000, and that's again with it mostly empty since its not available with the same GCWR as the van, only (11k). If you follow your link, click on "wagon" and then try to select a towing capacity over 5000 lbs, it tells you its not possible.

The discontinued E-series vans were much better for towing as they could have a GCWR up to 20k lbs. Just stick with the non-extended version. The best options for towing with a van now are the old Chevy Express or a Nissan NV3500. If Nissan eventually offers the Cummins V-8 in the NV3500, it will be awesome, as the Duramax in the Express is extremely neutered for transmission and heat management reasons.
__________________
cwsqbm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2016, 12:10 PM   #7
Member
 
SouthpawHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by dclayton View Post
Mostly towing locally in the northwest. We do have a 2000 mile trip this summer and Vancouver to Disneyland next spring. Even with the 2000 mile trip this summer I would bet we would do less than 3000 miles towing this year. I think the weights will be close but without getting the truck on a scale during a test drive it's just and educated guess at this point. I guess I am mostly concerned of the trailer swaying the truck and that is why I think the longer wheelbase would be better.....just don't know if it's necessary. The EL version of truck being so rare with decent mileage is looking like it may cost an 5-10k.
If you drive the average of 12,000, you're towing 25% of your annual mileage. Might want to think about a 3/4 crew cab truck.
__________________
Palomino SolAire 307QBDSK
2016 Chevy Silverado 2500HD, 6.0L, CC, 4.10
SouthpawHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 02:22 PM   #8
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 4
Sooooo.
Is anyone towing a similar trailer with an expedition?
__________________
dclayton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 08:01 PM   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
SmokeyWren's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midland County, Texas
Posts: 3,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by dclayton View Post
Sooooo.
Is anyone towing a similar trailer with an expedition?
Sure. There are lots of idiots in the world that tow with an overloaded tow vehicle. Don't be one of those.

39 years ago I decided to make my family a custom family van, intended for long-distance travel and dragging a camping trailer. The van was a “commercial” window van, not a passenger van. I ordered the fanciest interior that included two Flexsteel Captain’s Chairs, but nothing behind the front seats but a bare-metal floor and rear AC. The rear AC came with finished walls and ceiling. The window van came with windows all around, and I added the optional privacy glass.

First step was to cover the floor behind the front seats with roofing felt, 3/8th inch exterior plywood, 2” high-density foam, and the best plush carpeting available. Next was to find two more Captain’s Chairs in a bone yard and install them as the 2nd row seats. I built an overhead console that included an AM/FM radio that had earphone jacks, not speakers, so the kids could blow their brains out with hard rock music while Mom and Dad enjoyed "elevator” music from the sterio speakers.

Remember, that was 1977, before the Feds became Nanny and required passengers to wear seat belts. My kids spent most of their time on the road laying down on the thick carpeted “bed” in the back of the van.

Ford still makes a window van so anyone could almost duplicate my custom family van of 39 years ago. Build&Price on Ford.com let me build the one that follows:

Your Transit VanWagon
7,000 lbs tow rating
Payload 2,600 lbs up to 3,600 pounds
Engine
• 3.5L EcoBoost® V6 Engine
Transmission
• 6-Speed Automatic Overdrive with SelectShift® Transmission
• Style - Van
• Roof Height - Low Roof
• Length -Regular
• Towing 7,000 lbs.
Van XL
Starting MSRP $32,870

Max. When Properly Equipped
Payload: 3,600 lbs
Towing: 7,000 lbs
o $32,870 Base MSRP
o $6,420 Total of Options
o $1,195 Destination Charges
o $40,485 Total MSRP

o Model
o 2016 Transit Van XL 150, Regular Wheelbase, Low Roof Height, 3.5L EcoBoost® V6 Engine, 3.73 Regular Rear Axle, 6-Speed SelectShift® Automatic Transmission - O/D, Single Rear Wheel (Body Code: E1Z)
Equipment Groups
o $1,730 Premium Package
o $465 Heavy-Duty Trailer Tow Package
o $70 Cargo Area LED Load Compartment Lighting Package
Exterior
o $270 Fixed All-Around Windows
o $160 Running Boards
o $675 Privacy Glass
o $295 Reverse Sensing System
o $395 16-inch Styled Aluminum Wheels
o $230 Trailer Brake Controller
o $860 Air Conditioning Front/Rear
o $1,270 AM/FM Stereo with Lane Keeping Alert, SYNC® 3 with Navigation
The following were included as part of other options above:
$0 Spare Tire and Wheel
$0 Exterior Upgrade Package
$0 60/40 Passenger-Side Cargo-Doors (sliding side door is also optional at no cost))
$0 Leather (part of premium pkg.)
$0 Heavy-Duty Alternator (included
$0 Cruise Control with Message Center (included)
$0 Pewter Gray Leather, 10-Way Power Driver and Front-Passenger Seats (part of premium pkg.)
$0 Rear-Window Defogger (included
__________________
Grumpy ole man with over 50 years towing experience. Now my heaviest trailer is a 7,000-pound enclosed cargo trailer, RV is a 5,600 pound Skyline Nomad Joey 196S, and my tow vehicle is a 2012 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost SuperCrew.
SmokeyWren is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 11:31 PM   #10
Moderator Emeritus
 
SmokeyWren's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midland County, Texas
Posts: 3,326
I had to run watch War and Peace, so too late to edit the above post. But then I spent more time on Ford.com and built this more suitable Transit Van 250:

Configuration
• Low Roof
• Regular Wheelbase
• 3.5L EcoBoost® V6 Engine
• Gross Vehicle Weight Rating: 9000 GVWR (Transit Van 250)
• 3.73 Limited Slip Axle
• 6-Speed Automatic Overdrive with SelectShift® Transmission

Max. When Properly Equipped
Payload: 4,000 lbs
Towing: 7,000 lbs

o $34,100 2016 Transit Van XL 250, Regular Wheelbase, Low Height, 3.5L EcoBoost® V6 Engine, 3.73 Limited Slip Axle, 6-Speed SelectShift® Automatic Transmission - O/D, Single Rear Wheel

Paint $0 Race Red

Equipment Groups
o $1,495 Interior Upgrade Package
o $360 Exterior Upgrade Package
o $465 Heavy-Duty Trailer Tow Package
o $70 Cargo Area LED Load Compartment Lighting Package

Exterior
o $365 Windows All-Around with 2nd Row Driver-Side Flip-Open Glass
o $160 Running Board under side door
o $675 Privacy Glass
o $0 Rear-Window Defogger
o $95 Keyless-Entry Keypad
o $0 Spare Tire and Wheel
o $295 Reverse Sensing System
o $0 Heavy-Duty Alternator
o $220 Long-Arm Power Heated Mirrors with Turn Signals (tow mirrors)
o $395 16-inch Styled Aluminum Wheels
o $0 235/65R16 BSW All-Season Tires
o $0 60/40 Passenger-Side Cargo-Doors
o $0 Rear View Camera with Trailer Hitch Assist

Interior
o $0 Pewter
o $0 Leather
o $0 Vinyl Sun Visors with Illuminated Vanity Mirror
o $230 Trailer Brake Controller
o $860 Air Conditioning Front/Rear
o $0 Cruise Control with Message Center
o $1,270 AM/FM Stereo with Lane Keeping Alert, SYNC® 3 with Navigation
o $1,290 Pewter Gray Leather, 10-Way Power Driver and Front-Passenger


$8,245 Total of Options
$1,195 Destination Charges
$43,540 Total MSRP
__________________
SmokeyWren is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2016, 09:33 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 514
That's all in good, but most people want their kids in seat belts.

And seats bolted to the floor.

All that adds weight and takes away from the Transit's already minimal GCWR.
__________________
cwsqbm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2016, 10:26 AM   #12
Moderator Emeritus
 
SmokeyWren's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midland County, Texas
Posts: 3,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwsqbm View Post
That's all in good, but most people want their kids in seat belts.

And seats bolted to the floor.
Easy to do with boneyard van seats that include seat belts.

Quote:
All that adds weight and takes away from the Transit's already minimal GCWR.
Yes, the 7,000 pound tow rating is an actual max trailer weight of 6,000 or so pounds. You cannot drag the typical 8,000-pound TT with that Transit custom van without exceeding the GCWR, but you could easily drag my TT that has GVWR of 5,600 pounds.

If you want to drag a heavier TT with a van or SUV, then the only option is the antiquated GM vans. Max towing capacity of 10,000 pounds means you can have your 8,000-pound TT without being overloaded. And that's either passenger van or cargo van, so you don't have to go shopping for boneyard van seats.
2016 Express Passenger Van: Full-size Van | Chevrolet
__________________
SmokeyWren is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2016, 11:47 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
jbenoit28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 290
I towed a 7000# trailer with a 2006 Excursion twice. I had to get my hitch bars cranked up to extreme to even get it close to level. This was not a fun way to drive. The trailer was only 20' box and was low to the ground (enclosed car trailer) but it owned my truck. Sold that and have our Excursion now. They are getting tough to find, but are great TV if you give them a little TLC and bullet proof them.
__________________

__________________
2005 Ford Excursion Diesel 4X4 with Roadmaster Active Suspension, F350 1 3/16" rear sway bar, Bilstein shocks & steering damper.
2012 Sprinter 311BHS
jbenoit28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2012 Expedition jhs1881 Fleetwood Products Owner's Forum 0 03-06-2015 04:20 PM
2001 Expedition 36T 02camp Fleetwood Products Owner's Forum 13 12-31-2014 10:43 AM
2009 Expedition Control Cabinet Access jtermini30 Fleetwood Products Owner's Forum 1 12-24-2014 10:01 AM
Fleetwood Expedition Owners Group - Facebook Page dsnoyes Fleetwood Products Owner's Forum 0 09-01-2014 03:40 PM
Calling on All Fleetwood Expedition Owners.... jstdreamin iRV2.com General Discussion 0 05-27-2014 09:43 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.