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Old 12-18-2013, 08:13 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by jimcumminsw View Post
That maybe true and most experience user do know to let the engine and turbo cool down before shutting the engine off. But with the design of the new 6.7L ford engine and the turbo buried in the valley the turbo will not cool with ambient air since the engine is heat soak. This heat will transfer to the surrounding components and to me this is what will cook the oil and water that is in the turbo as it sits there. Also are you sure that Honeywell is paying the warranty dollars and not ford.

Jim W.
You have to remember that diesel exhaust does not get near as hot as a gasser. EGTs are typically 3-400 degrees unless it is worked hard. But even during regen EGT1 is around 1000F when I perform a manual regen. I have to believe that if that plastic upper intake that sits over the turbo and wiring that is around it does not have an issue with heat, the turbo will not either. Also if the turbo can handle 1000+ degrees F during regen, a few hundred degrees should never affect it. I would rather see that Ford added a 9th injector in the exhaust for regen similar to the Duramax though. Rather see that than pumping fuel during the exhaust stroke in the cyl. I have a F550 I have to replace a BCM and do an oil change tomorrow. I will try and remember to take some temp measurements.

And yes, sure that Honeywell pays for their failures. This is a big key on why many companies outsource some parts. Im sure Cummins pays for their warranty claims and not Ram. There may be some sort of split in cost but im pretty positive that the deal with Honeywell is no different than other contracts.
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:26 AM   #16
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We are discussing the diesel turbo location not the gas engine model location.

Jim W.
Then I hope Ford engineers are following this thread and learning from our discussion.
My point was they are proly way ahead by years of the concerns here .
I would hope they don't cruise the internet for mistake they make, can you imagine ? "Bob did check out irv net?" " dang why didn't we think of that!"

Really we don't need to get our panties in a twist over the simple stuff.
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Old 12-19-2013, 08:43 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by jamesrxx951 View Post
You have to remember that diesel exhaust does not get near as hot as a gasser. EGTs are typically 3-400 degrees unless it is worked hard. But even during regen EGT1 is around 1000F when I perform a manual regen. I have to believe that if that plastic upper intake that sits over the turbo and wiring that is around it does not have an issue with heat, the turbo will not either. Also if the turbo can handle 1000+ degrees F during regen, a few hundred degrees should never affect it. I would rather see that Ford added a 9th injector in the exhaust for regen similar to the Duramax though. Rather see that than pumping fuel during the exhaust stroke in the cyl. I have a F550 I have to replace a BCM and do an oil change tomorrow. I will try and remember to take some temp measurements.

And yes, sure that Honeywell pays for their failures. This is a big key on why many companies outsource some parts. Im sure Cummins pays for their warranty claims and not Ram. There may be some sort of split in cost but im pretty positive that the deal with Honeywell is no different than other contracts.
I have seen as high as 1450F EGT's when the truck was regeneration mode of the DPF. Also the 6.7L Ram operates around 700 to 800 F at idle and 1000F when towing. Seen it and recorded the information, discuss this with turbo design engineers before retiring form vehicle design. I have spent some time in warranty negotiations in the past so I do know who pays and who doesn’t pay for them.

Jim W.
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:52 PM   #18
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I have seen as high as 1450F EGT's when the truck was regeneration mode of the DPF. Also the 6.7L Ram operates around 700 to 800 F at idle and 1000F when towing. Seen it and recorded the information, discuss this with turbo design engineers before retiring form vehicle design. I have spent some time in warranty negotiations in the past so I do know who pays and who doesn’t pay for them.

Jim W.
With a Ford 6.7L chassis cab F550 with a GVW of 19K and around 16K when I drove it, I had nothing close to EGT1 temps that you have. Idle it would be around 250-300, driving was between 500-600 and WOT to 80 MPH saw a peak of 740F. Granted EGT1 is just below the turbo and not measuring actual turbo housing temp, but im sure it is pretty close. But even with a 6.4L where EGT1 is on an up pipe, I don't remember temps anywhere near yours. It took a while to get it hot enough to enter manual regen which is above 450F or somewhere in that area.

Every now and then I will see a 6.0L with a pyro gauge and I don't seem to remember temps close to yours either with those. Closer to what I just seen with this 6.7L.
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:56 PM   #19
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James, the readings Jim cites are pre-turbo. Where are you measuring your temps on the 6.7L? It sounds like post-turbo.

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Old 12-19-2013, 03:22 PM   #20
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James, the readings Jim cites are pre-turbo. Where are you measuring your temps on the 6.7L? It sounds like post-turbo.

Rusty
Yes those are post turbo on the 6.7L as is said above. However the 6.4L EGT1 is mounted on the right bank up pipe to the turbo. I seem to recall very similar numbers when doing a manual regen a few weeks ago.
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Old 12-19-2013, 03:49 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by jimcumminsw View Post
That maybe true and most experience user do know to let the engine and turbo cool down before shutting the engine off. But with the design of the new 6.7L ford engine and the turbo buried in the valley the turbo will not cool with ambient air since the engine is heat soak. This heat will transfer to the surrounding components and to me this is what will cook the oil and water that is in the turbo as it sits there. Also are you sure that Honeywell is paying the warranty dollars and not ford.

Jim W.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. on the ecoboost engine Ford say in thier informational video that there is no need for cool off period . on the ecoboost due to the turbos are plumbed in a way that coolant will continue flow due to a siphon effect. It was designed that way for a reason.
I'd think they probably did the same thing on the 6.7L diesel.
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:31 PM   #22
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I wouldn't be so sure about that. on the ecoboost engine Ford say in thier informational video that there is no need for cool off period . on the ecoboost due to the turbos are plumbed in a way that coolant will continue flow due to a siphon effect. It was designed that way for a reason.
I'd think they probably did the same thing on the 6.7L diesel.
Ford does say to allow for a cool down idle period for the 6.7L. Per the owners guide:
STOPPING THE ENGINE
Turn the ignition to the off position.
To prolong engine life (especially after extended high speed, high
ambient temperature, or high GVW/GCW operation, such as heavy loads
and/or heavy trailers), it is recommended that a hot engine be idled for
3-5 minutes which will allow the turbocharged engine to cool down. For
more information on GVW/GCW, see
Vehicle loading – with and

without a trailer
in the Owner guide
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:39 PM   #23
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Anyone hear how much torque the enhanced engine will produce? Also 19.5" wheels are back for the F-450. Also trying to find out what, if any, frame improvements were made. Any brake inprovements?

I did hear that the modified engine will now have much better exhaust breaking than before.

The owners manual does say to let the engine idle approx 5 minutes after towing.
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:43 PM   #24
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James, the readings Jim cites are pre-turbo. Where are you measuring your temps on the 6.7L? It sounds like post-turbo.

Rusty
I figured I would do some google search's and found these:
The Truth About EGT - Diesel Power Magazine

Exhaust Gas Temperature Basics - Diesel Power Magazine

I am very surprised on the recorded temp drops between the turbo inlet and outlet, at least under load.

Also found this:
Typical EGT

  • A diesel engine's exhaust manifold EGTs will typically run at about 300 to 500 degrees under no-load to part-throttle conditions, 800 to 900 degrees under a medium load and 1,000 to 1,200 degrees under a really heavy load and under full throttle. Temperatures measured at a point past the turbo will typically run 100-plus degrees cooler, depending upon the turbo rpm and flow. A normal gas engine will run about the same as a diesel under light-to-medium load conditions, but will average about 500 degrees under most conditions. However, the EGTs can easily surpass 1,500 degrees in turbocharged and performance applications.

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Old 12-19-2013, 05:53 PM   #25
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Instrumented testing on the Cummins B-series has documented 300-400 degF difference between pre-turbo and post-turbo EGT at full load. Unmodified, my 2002 5.9L Cummins HO could reach 1350 degF pre-turbo on long, steep pulls.

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Old 12-19-2013, 06:04 PM   #26
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Instrumented testing on the Cummins B-series has documented 300-400 degF difference between pre-turbo and post-turbo EGT at full load. Unmodified, my 2002 5.9L Cummins HO could reach 1350 degF pre-turbo on long, steep pulls.

Rusty
What did you read at idle?
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:37 PM   #27
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I have seen as high as 1450F EGT's when the truck was regeneration mode of the DPF. Also the 6.7L Ram operates around 700 to 800 F at idle and 1000F when towing. Seen it and recorded the information, discuss this with turbo design engineers before retiring form vehicle design. I have spent some time in warranty negotiations in the past so I do know who pays and who doesn’t pay for them.

Jim W.
Your idle temps seem way off from these guys: What is your EGT at idle? - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum

So if these guys are right and we pretty much assume that all truck set ups are the same, the turbo center section really is not heat stressed enough to cook the oil. With the liquid cooling of the Ford 6.7L and oil, the center section will remain pretty cool.
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Old 12-19-2013, 07:17 PM   #28
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What did you read at idle?
About 350 to 450 degF with the exhaust brake off, 600 to 650 degF with the exhaust brake on - that's the 2002 5.9L Cummins HO.

Switching subjects, the center section (bearing housing) of the Holset VGT on the 6.7L Cummins is cooled by engine coolant as well as engine oil coincident with bearing lubrication.

It's possible that the 6.7L could run hotter than my 2002 did at idle because the VGT sliding nozzle ring is at minimum area position at idle, which is the same position used for exhaust braking; my 2002 didn't have a VGT - the nozzle area was fixed at 12 sq cm, so it had less restriction at idle with the exhaust brake off. Cummins wants to keep EGTs up at idle to prevent varnish formation on the cold valve stems because there's LOTS of coolant in the valve guide area to provide adequate cooling at full load. In fact, the ECU (which controlled the Jacobs exhaust brake) would turn the exhaust brake on at idle on my 2002 5.9 IF the exhaust brake switch was on in order to keep the EGTs elevated.

Rusty
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