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Old 05-24-2012, 09:49 AM   #1
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F350 - Pin weight max for 5'er

I know this topic has been discussed at GREAT length and I've researched the stickie section here and various charts on Ford truck specs. My wife and I are looking into our first 5'er and I want to confirm my max pin weight. The F-350 is a 2006 super duty SRW, 325 hp, 6.0 turbo diesel, 3.73 gears, 12,500 tow rating, 1250 tongue weight, front GAWR 6000, rear GAWR 7000, GVWR 11,500, 18" tires, 172 WB, 6000 lb gross carrying weight (taken from door jam) and from the best I can tell a curb weight of 6957 which I determined from a Ford truck spec chart based on the above info. Given the GVWR minus the curb weight I get 4543 max for gas, cargo, passengers, etc. My issue is trying to determine what is the max pin weight for this truck for which I assume is taken in combination with any other bed payload and how much gas is in the tank. The 5'er we're looking at has a dry weight of 10,812 and a hitch weight of 2080 (there will not be a w/d in the front bedroom) and a GVWR of 14,800. Is this doable and safe? I've learned through experience to not trust RV dealer sales people as has been mentioned here so I thought I'd come to you guys seeing you have the experience and knowledge. Your opinions are greatly appreciated, thanks!
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:20 PM   #2
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First thing to do id to weigh the truck loaded for travel and add 150# for the 5 hitch if it is mot installed.

From the door jamb,
GVWR
rear Axle GAWR

GVWR - loaded truck = max loaded trailer tongue weight you can carry

GCWR - loaded truck = max loaded trailer you can tow.

make sure you do not exceed the rear axle GVWR.

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Old 05-24-2012, 01:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
First thing to do id to weigh the truck loaded for travel and add 150# for the 5 hitch if it is mot installed.

From the door jamb,
GVWR
rear Axle GAWR

GVWR - loaded truck = max loaded trailer tongue weight you can carry

GCWR - loaded truck = max loaded trailer you can tow.

make sure you do not exceed the rear axle GVWR.

Ken
GAWR - Gross axle weight rating - how much weight the axle will carry.

GVWR - Gross vehicle weight rating - The max weight rating for the truck - not the axle weight rating.

GCWR - Gross combined weight rarting - The weight of the truck and trailer.

Payload - the weight your truck can carry which will include the pin weight, fuel, people and "stuff".

Fifth Wheel Tow rating - the max weight the fiver can weigh and be towed byh this truck. A TT will have a different weight specified.

Get the truck specs from a dealer or contact the manufacturer.
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Old 05-24-2012, 08:54 PM   #4
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Question about weights without any actual scaled weight numbers lead to estimating and opinions. Heres mine.
If you need to know the exact pin weight your truck can carry you will have to weigh the trucks front and real axles seperatly.

The trucks pin weight sits over the 7000 RAWR. Many F350 SRW owners report a unladin rear axle weight of 3000 lbs which leaves approx 4000 lb for a hitch/junk in the bed and the hitch weight. Fords fleet online spec pages shows some F350 SRW with 4000 ln payloads.

Or if you choose to use the trucks 11500 GVWR to figure max loads many F350 SRW owners report their trucks gross 7400-7600 lbs which leaves 3900-4100 lb for a payload. Both ways make a safe tow. These are estimates and actual scaled weights may be better or worse

Now the estimates for your 14800 GVWR 10812 lbs dry weight with a dry 2080 pin weight. Some folks like to figure pin weights from the full 14800 GVWR and use a estimate 20 percent pin weight = 2960 lbs for a max pin weight.
Or use the 10812 dry weigh and add another 1500-1800 lbs of stuff you add = 2500-2600 lb wet pin weight.

Either way you figure the truck will handle that particular 5er fine.
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:39 PM   #5
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I bet that 6900 lb weight is bone dry and no options...(including a heavy diesel engine like mine!)

as stated, go by a truck stop and roll onto their cat scales for $9.50 to know your real weight... http://catscale.com/cat-scale-locator

I would guess your truck weight is closer to 8000....

and depending on which hitch u get, 250 may be low - my superglide 18k is in the 350 lb range...
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Old 05-25-2012, 02:41 PM   #6
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Don't know about Ford, but GM has a max PW regardless of cargo capacity. To find your cargo capacity, look on the Tire and Loading Information sticker on the left side of the door frame. It will give you the cargo capacity to the nearest pound.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:37 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmoore View Post
My issue is trying to determine what is the max pin weight for this truck for which I assume is taken in combination with any other bed payload and how much gas is in the tank.
Ford (and GM and Dodge) all warn that you should NEVER exceed ANY of the weight ratings of your tow vehicle. There are a dozen or so different weight ratings, but for an F-350 SRW the limiter is probably the GVWR of the truck.

The only way to get a decent estimate of the max pin weight you can tow without exceeding the GVWR of the truck is to load the truck with everything you will have in it when towing: people, pets, tools, spares, jack(s), jack base, 5er hitch, extra fluids, whatever. Be sure you load the heavy floor jack that you will want with you on every towing trip. Drive to a truckstop that has a certified automated truck (CAT) scale and fill up with fuel. Then weigh the wet and loaded truck.

Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded truck from the GVWR of the truck, and the answer is the max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded.

5ers have hitch weight of about 16 to 24 percent of the gross trailer weight, but most of the 5ers you can tow with an SRW pickup will have hitch weight of about 17 or 18 percent. To be fairly certain of a good estimate, I'd use 20 percent. So divide the max hitch weight by 20 percent (0.20) and the answer is the max GVWR of any 5er you should buy to tow with that truck.

Example: Your wet and loaded F-350 SRW weighs 9,000 pounds on the 4 truck tires. You GVWR is 11,500, so your max hitch weight is 2,500 pounds. 2,500 divided by 0.20 = 12,500 pounds. So for that example, I would not want to buy a 5er with a GVWR more than 12,500 pounds.

Can you tow a 5er that has a GVWR over 14,000 pounds without being overloaded? Maybe, but you must continually be worried about how much stuff you load in the truck and trailer. Travel with empty holding tanks. Ignore those pretty rocks your wife wants to haul home. That sort of nit-noid bothers. Most wet and loaded 2005-up F-350 SRW CrewCab diesel 4x4s are going to gross over 9,000 pounds before you tie onto the trailer, so that 9,000 pounds estimate is not too high. But only the CAT scale knows for sure, so spend the $10 and be sure. (I weighed yesterday, and they charged me $9.50.)
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:22 AM   #8
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smokey, your 9,000lbs truck weight is way off! I own a 2007 F 350 cc,4by4,DRW, 6.0 turbo diesel, with the fifth wheel hitch in the bed and the aux fuel tank, tool box, my wife and i and 2 daughters, the truck weighs 9,400lbs! with just me in the truck with the primary fuel tank full, the truck weighs 8,720lbs.
a F 350 SRW truck will not weigh over 9,000lbs wet.
i think the OP can tow his fifth wheel fine with his f 350 SRW truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
Ford (and GM and Dodge) all warn that you should NEVER exceed ANY of the weight ratings of your tow vehicle. There are a dozen or so different weight ratings, but for an F-350 SRW the limiter is probably the GVWR of the truck.

The only way to get a decent estimate of the max pin weight you can tow without exceeding the GVWR of the truck is to load the truck with everything you will have in it when towing: people, pets, tools, spares, jack(s), jack base, 5er hitch, extra fluids, whatever. Be sure you load the heavy floor jack that you will want with you on every towing trip. Drive to a truckstop that has a certified automated truck (CAT) scale and fill up with fuel. Then weigh the wet and loaded truck.

Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded truck from the GVWR of the truck, and the answer is the max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded.

5ers have hitch weight of about 16 to 24 percent of the gross trailer weight, but most of the 5ers you can tow with an SRW pickup will have hitch weight of about 17 or 18 percent. To be fairly certain of a good estimate, I'd use 20 percent. So divide the max hitch weight by 20 percent (0.20) and the answer is the max GVWR of any 5er you should buy to tow with that truck.

Example: Your wet and loaded F-350 SRW weighs 9,000 pounds on the 4 truck tires. You GVWR is 11,500, so your max hitch weight is 2,500 pounds. 2,500 divided by 0.20 = 12,500 pounds. So for that example, I would not want to buy a 5er with a GVWR more than 12,500 pounds.

Can you tow a 5er that has a GVWR over 14,000 pounds without being overloaded? Maybe, but you must continually be worried about how much stuff you load in the truck and trailer. Travel with empty holding tanks. Ignore those pretty rocks your wife wants to haul home. That sort of nit-noid bothers. Most wet and loaded 2005-up F-350 SRW CrewCab diesel 4x4s are going to gross over 9,000 pounds before you tie onto the trailer, so that 9,000 pounds estimate is not too high. But only the CAT scale knows for sure, so spend the $10 and be sure. (I weighed yesterday, and they charged me $9.50.)
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:33 PM   #9
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a F 350 SRW truck will not weigh over 9,000lbs wet.
Crewcab 4x4 diesel with 8' bed. Lots of them weigh 9,000 or more before tying onto the trailer. If it were mine it would weigh about 9,000 before tying onto the trailer. And there's only two adults and a couple of puppydogs in mine. And toolbox full of tools, floor jack and big bottle jack and big chunk of 3/4" plywood for a jackbase in case of a flat on the trailer. Rhino lining is heavy. Add back seat full of kids and their stuff and the weight goes up dramatically. But it's easy to check. That's why they make CAT scales.
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:38 PM   #10
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It is so easy to determine the capable pin weight without a bunch of conversation. load it up and go to the scales. from there it is common math that we all learned in grammar school. no " mine can, yours is, my buddies can.......". weigh it and it is what it is.

the first 2 things to check is:

  • GVWR - truck weight = max pin weight.
  • GCWR - truck weight = max GVWR of the trailer (unless you plan to always pull a totally empty trailer then use unloaded weight).


Then move on to looking at the axle ratings.


but remember the fine print on the trailer too ----- the weight ratings in the brochures (like the trucks) are for a trailer with no options and no stuff. To assist, some manufacturers list the weight of each option, but most do not. you won't really know the actual weight (if ordered new) until you receive it. If you are buying private, or off a lot, check the sticker on the trailer for actual weights.
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Old 05-28-2012, 07:43 PM   #11
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Weights

Hi

Our 2009 Duramax full 4 door cab DRW 2X4 with driver, wife, 2 dogs, full fuel, tools box, fifth wheel hitch, 6 4X4X36 wood blocks, 4 2’ X 2’ ¾ plywood panels and all the “stuff” my wife needs with her weights 8,040 lbs.

To give you an idea of how these things seem to “grow” heaver thru the years. 7/05/2009 the rig was 1 month old CAT scale weight 20,800 lbs. 7/26/2009 rig just 2 months old weight 22,540 lbs. 2/04/2010 rig now 8 months old 22,840 lbs. 8/2010 rig just 1 year old 23,000 lbs. That is the heaviest it ever weighed.

Regardless of how much figuring you do the CAT scale tells all.


I weight before any long trip that is when we are traveling fully loaded. So far for 2012 I have weighed 2 times.

3665RE

PS: I travel on the long trips with the potable water tank full and waste tanks empty.The above rig weights are with the water tank full.
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Old 05-29-2012, 07:12 AM   #12
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Good idea....
I've weighed multiple times myself...

as an fyi, if you save your receipt for the cat scales and say it's a reweigh when you call in, they will ask you for the receipt number and you only pay a dollar - so cheap verification and it is actually legal certified protection for you in the case someone tries to fine or sue you for overweight...
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:14 PM   #13
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why would you travel with the water tank full? that is just extra weight, IMO


Quote:
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Hi

Our 2009 Duramax full 4 door cab DRW 2X4 with driver, wife, 2 dogs, full fuel, tools box, fifth wheel hitch, 6 4X4X36 wood blocks, 4 2’ X 2’ ¾ plywood panels and all the “stuff” my wife needs with her weights 8,040 lbs.

To give you an idea of how these things seem to “grow” heaver thru the years. 7/05/2009 the rig was 1 month old CAT scale weight 20,800 lbs. 7/26/2009 rig just 2 months old weight 22,540 lbs. 2/04/2010 rig now 8 months old 22,840 lbs. 8/2010 rig just 1 year old 23,000 lbs. That is the heaviest it ever weighed.

Regardless of how much figuring you do the CAT scale tells all.


I weight before any long trip that is when we are traveling fully loaded. So far for 2012 I have weighed 2 times.

3665RE

PS: I travel on the long trips with the potable water tank full and waste tanks empty.The above rig weights are with the water tank full.
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Old 05-30-2012, 06:21 AM   #14
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Full water tank

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why would you travel with the water tank full? that is just extra weight, IMO
Hi

We attend a lot of events like County fair’s etc. About the time you arrive at one where the RV parking area is full and you wind up on the end of a 15 amp. extension cord and no water you will be very happy to have pulled the trailer with your fresh water tank full. LOL

When we travel for extended periods of time (6 months or more) we commonly don’t make reservations at RV parks ahead of time. We will look up the nearest ones on the Internet and call to see if there is space available. This will some times result in us “dry camping”.

We just find this a fun way to wonder around the country.

Then on accession when I get a consulting contract for a DOT common carrier the RV park will not be close some times 30 or 40 miles away. Then we will camp in their parking lot and commonly only have 15 or 20 amp. electric.

3665RE

PS: We can get about 2 weeks on our water tank. The limiting factor is the shower gray tank.
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