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Old 04-07-2013, 01:43 PM   #15
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We will be towing a new KZ Spree which is less than 6,000 lbs dry so it will pull like a dream.
as has been stated here over and over. dry weight is a useless number. As soon as you put a pacjage of paper plates in your trailer, that number is out the window. I still do not understand why it is even printed. Use the trailer GVWR instead.
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:12 PM   #16
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Pay Load

Someone correct me if I am wrong but for the most part the payload sticker on a truck is directly related to the tire ratings that were installed on that truck by the factory.
I could be wrong but I think the only difference in a F250 9600 payload to the F250 with a 10000 payload is the tires installed by the factory.
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:34 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by rabraz View Post
Someone correct me if I am wrong but for the most part the payload sticker on a truck is directly related to the tire ratings that were installed on that truck by the factory.
I could be wrong but I think the only difference in a F250 9600 payload to the F250 with a 10000 payload is the tires installed by the factory.
If the difference is only 400 pounds, you may be right.
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:40 PM   #18
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The fact is, though, you're pretty well stuck with the ratings the manufacturer certified your vehicle for - specifically, the GVWR and GAWRs shown on the driver's door sticker.

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Old 04-07-2013, 04:29 PM   #19
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Someone correct me if I am wrong but for the most part the payload sticker on a truck is directly related to the tire ratings that were installed on that truck by the factory.
You're corrected.

The payload is the GVWR of the truck minus the weight of the empty truck. The GVWR is determined by the component with the least weight capacity of several components, including tires, wheels, springs and other suspension parts, axle, frame strength, and braking capability.

My 2012 F-150 has a GVWR of 7,100 pounds, but the weight capacity of the 4 stock tires is 9,084 pounds. So obviously, the tires are not what decides the GVWR (and payload) of my pickup.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:39 AM   #20
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Here is my reasoning for design capacity.
My neighbor has a 2004 F350 dually rated at around 12k 5th wheel capacity with same powertrain as my 2005 F250. So in theory he should be able to tow 16k trailer as my 2005 can.
But the 2004 has 16in tires with brake pads at least 25% smaller then my 2005. Therefore the braking capacity is limiting the trailer towing capacity. The truck by itself can handle a 10k load well for braking capacity. And I am sure it can pull it very well.
Add a trailer with 14k of axle capacity like I have. Then the braking capacity is now 24klbs or 23500lbs as specified by ford. But the 2004 with smaller brakes has a limited capacity of 12k due to the smaller brakes and similar powertrain.
So I conclude that the trailer axle capacity has some very important requirements when calculating the GCWR of setup.
Therefore my truck would only be rated to pull combined weights of 22k with 6k axles and 20k with 5k axles.
Load on the pin cannot exceed the tire/axle loading but can overload the truck if additional trailer axle capacity is available. But most manufacturer will load the axles to the limit and will not allow additional weight thus overloading the TV requiring additional capacity for the TV.
Now change the power train to gas and the capacity is determined by the engine capacity due mostly heat generated under load. My 98 diesel GM had a 15hp fan and dual thermostats with over 3 times the opening then the one on the singled thermostat 5.7L gas. If the gas engine can tow it without heating and cracking exhaust manifold go ahead but my experience has been lots power only after the exhaust has been modified and limited endurence in the hills.
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Old 04-08-2013, 08:08 PM   #21
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F250

I agree in large part to all the posts. There are a lot of factors that go into the various weight ratings of a truck. One thing I found peculiar is the rear axle rating on my door column totals the rating of the stock tires. In other words, when I add the tire max load ratings of the tires on the rear axle, the total matches the rear axle rating. This only works for the stock tires. I asked a Ford Service Manager what the difference was between the various model GVWR and he told me that while he was not certain, he felt it came down to the tires.

In researching my trucks capabilities and what makes it different from other Superduty models I discovered the Ford Builder Link.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas.../techspec.html

I was surprised to discover there is not as much difference in the Superduty models as one might think but those differences are significant. For instance, the only difference I could find in the F250 and the F350 is the rear axle and the rear suspension. Everything else appears to be the same. That is aside from the whole diesel/gas thing as well as SRW/DRW.

I believe you can maximize your truck's capabilities by increasing the suspension characteristics and a quality rim/tire upgrade. This is not to indicate you change the builders spec as posted on door column. As Rusty states, legally you are confined to the numbers posted on your door.

I appreciate all the input from you good folks.

Happy Trails
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:17 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post

You're corrected.

The payload is the GVWR of the truck minus the weight of the empty truck. The GVWR is determined by the component with the least weight capacity of several components, including tires, wheels, springs and other suspension parts, axle, frame strength, and braking capability.

My 2012 F-150 has a GVWR of 7,100 pounds, but the weight capacity of the 4 stock tires is 9,084 pounds. So obviously, the tires are not what decides the GVWR (and payload) of my pickup.
Right on Smokey. With Chevy, the door post ratings for air pressure in front and rear tires are a good bit less than the max psi cold number on tire sidewall. Reason? Chevy lowers the cold psi air pressure recommended for the tires and that pressure lowers the gross wt rating of the tires to match the truck's axle limit. I actually think its a liability thing. If you air the tires to Psi listed on tire sidewall, the pair of tires on the axle will carry more wt. than the axle is rated for. Example: 2012 Chevy 2500 crew cab--Goodyear tires = 80 psi on sidewall. Chevy door post = 60 psi front, 75 psi rear. If you look up the max gross for those tires at Chevys recommended psi, the tire max gross now matches what the truck's front and rear axle ratings are. Chevy says their tire inflation is all about ride and wear--BS it's about matching gross wt ratings.
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:57 AM   #23
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Excellent point. The door post ratings on my dually have the fronts @ 80 PSIG and the rears @ 65 PSIG at maximum permissible GAWRs. Obviously, the tires are not the limiting factor on my rear GAWR.

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Old 04-10-2013, 07:05 PM   #24
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F250

All good points and great info. My door post indicates 75psi for the front axles and 80 for the rear which places the tire max load ratings the same as the axle ratings. I agree this is by manufacturer design and liability reasons is a sound call.
I know Ford offers a couple different GVWR for the same model vehicle. I would like to find out what the difference is of each. Based on the info from the Builders Page I've yet to get to the bottom of that question. The answer is probably right in front of me and I just don't see it.

Thanks to all for the good input and education.
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:03 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by rabraz View Post
All good points and great info. My door post indicates 75psi for the front axles and 80 for the rear which places the tire max load ratings the same as the axle ratings. I agree this is by manufacturer design and liability reasons is a sound call.
I know Ford offers a couple different GVWR for the same model vehicle. I would like to find out what the difference is of each. Based on the info from the Builders Page I've yet to get to the bottom of that question. The answer is probably right in front of me and I just don't see it.

Thanks to all for the good input and education.
My truck indicates 75 front and back. I keep it at that pressure and when loaded the rear tire pressure is 80psi without adding more air. So for me the rearis loaded perfect and Ford has allowed this in their unloaded spec. So when loaded I always put 80psi. As I always did with my previous 98 GM 2500. No way I would only put 65psi on the rear of a dually that I would drive. To me its for ride comfort and tires are more then 10% underinflated and considered flat at 20%. Loose one and the remaining tire when loaded is ruined.
A friend bought a new Toyota one time and the tires were underinflated and he drove for quit a while that way. The ride realy changed for the worst after he inflated properly. He would not have bought the truck having known the ride was that rough. Now TPMS do not allow it but dealers can still fool customers.
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:21 AM   #26
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I think you're missing the point. Dodge is saying that the tires only have to be inflated to 65 PSIG on the rear axle to carry the rated rear axle GAWR. This is consistent with the tire manufacturer's load versus inflation pressure charts. In other words, tire capacity is NOT the load limiter for rear axle GAWR.

A tire operating at 10% below its maximum allowable pressure shown on the sidewall is NOT underinflated. A tire is underinflated when operating 10% lower than the tire pressure called for in the tire manufacturer's load versus inflation pressure charts for the load being carried by the tire.

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