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Old 04-20-2013, 06:42 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by tuffr2 View Post
Can you also add the towing specs of a F-350 DRW and pin weights 5er weights?
Fords, along with everybody else, keep getting stronger. So the following is only for the 2013 model year.

2013 F-350 DRW CrewCab 4x4 diesel 8' bed
GVWR = 14,000 pounds
GCWR = 30,500
Tow rating = 22,400
Typical wet and loaded truck weight = 9,000 pounds
Typical available payload for hitch weight 5,000 pounds

GCWR increased significantly over the SRW because of 3.73 vs. 3.31 axle ratio. (Optional 3.55 axle ratio in the SRW doesn't change GCWR).

With 5,000 pounds available for hitch weight, GVWR is not the limiter for fifth wheel max trailer weight. 5,000 divided by 0.18 = 27,778 max trailer weight if GVWR were the limiter for a 5er with 18% hitch weight. But 27,778 trailer plus 9,000 truck weight = more than the 30,500 GCWR.

So GCWR is the limiter. GCWR 30,500 pounds minus 9,000 pounds truck weight = 21,500 real world max trailer weight. That's not quite the 22,400 tow rating, but it's in the ballpark. The difference is Ford says the truck weighs 8,100 pounds, but we used a more realistic 9,000 pounds wet and loaded truck weight.
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Old 04-20-2013, 12:30 PM   #30
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Smokey always has a way of explaining things where they make sense...Thanks! One thing to look at which most of us neglect is the stamp weight or "empty weight" of the loaded power unit. Without using numbers that I don't have or making them up. I understand the new Dodge will have a higher GVW than the Ford, BUT if the Dodge truck weighs more, then the consumer didn't really gain anything other than bragging rights. I own a small trucking fleet hauling bulk commodities, so a low stamp weight on our trucks means more money in our pockets. I've speced new trucks with weight saving components such as small sleepers, small block power, wide base single tires, stationary 5th wheel, composite springs, ect. and aluminum grain trailers. Full of fuel we weigh 24,500lbs. Most others in the business operate old OTR trucks with large sleepers and weigh 28,500lbs. We all gross the same loaded weight of 80,000lbs. The weight savings on equipment, without compromising the integrity or GVW of the truck, gains me around $8-10K aditional revenue per truck for doing nothing. The point of my comparison is, we all would be wise to know the actual weight of our tow vehicles, then we could make the decision as to which make really does have the higher capacity, and/or be better suited for a particuliar application. I never did like math in school, so I have an F350 and a short mid-profile 5th wheel. :-)
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:10 PM   #31
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Just weighed the F350 on the elevators scales. 8,600lbs with a half tank of fuel and 200 of me in the chair. Hitch is in storage so I figure hitch at 200 lbs and 15 more gal of diesel at 7lbs/gal is another 105lbs. We would be at around 9,000lbs solo.
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:46 PM   #32
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Well I did it found a great deal on a 2012 Ram 3500 thinking maybe later upgrade to a Fifth Wheel.So thanks for all the advice hope to meet some of ya camping one day.Happy Trails
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:21 PM   #33
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Just weighed the F350 on the elevators scales. 8,600lbs with a half tank of fuel and 200 of me in the chair. Hitch is in storage so I figure hitch at 200 lbs and 15 more gal of diesel at 7lbs/gal is another 105lbs. We would be at around 9,000lbs solo.
What were your trucks unladin axle weights ??
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:37 PM   #34
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My son had prom last night and took the F350. I was on the way to pick up things from the hall with it this morning, elevator was on the way. With all the conversation on the site, I was curious so I pulled on the scale quick, glanced at the weight and headed on up to the hall. So I didn't read axle weights. I'll plan on weighing the axles, next rime I have the truck out.
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:37 AM   #35
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Hello, I'm a real Rookie, total newb when it comes to all this camping stuff. It seems that I'm Stupid, and ya'll are smart! Never realized all this stuff was part of the equation, well some. Anyhow, the wife and I have decided that we wanted to get on the road and and do some Rving. So I purchased a New 2012 Ford F250 Superduty 4x4, CC, SRW 6.7 Deisel, 3.55 locking rear.

Man, I love this truck! It rides better and is smoother than any gas vehicle I have ever owned except for a 1990 Lexus. I think I should have gotten a F350 DRW, but it is what it is. In looking around at RV's, we want to get a 5thW, but in reading what your saying it is all so confusing to me, like that damn algebra, failed that course! It seems though that making the right decision, would require one to know the first spec for choosing a 5thW is knowing what my truck can handle, Safely and Comfortably, not borderline.

Can anyone tell me what the maximum GVW of the 5thW I should consider, using the specs for my truck? Two adults, one, 100 pound dog. It seems that that is the number I should have when I take to the RV dealers when I start to seriously shop, been looking some, but it seems every sales guy is telling me Oh, that truck can pull almost anything we have on the lot. I ain't buying that BS! There has to be a easier way. Please don't tell me if I can't figure it out then I should not purchase an RV, LOL, cause I'm gonna anyhow! Any help would be appreciated, I know this is an RV forum, but If anyone here needs help in anything that deals with computer technology, Video, Graphics and design, you could say that my knowledge is equivalent to a MBA at Harvard. just private email me, I'll be more than happy to help. This seems like a good forum, fairly active. Looking forward getting smart enough to be dangerous! LOL

Thanks
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:49 AM   #36
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JMO but from past experience I use the UVW sticker on the unit (TT-5'er) then add 1,000-1,200lbs to it. Thats the average load that non full timers pack. With just my wife and I we pack right around 1,000lbs. Going with the units GVWR is good but it can also keep you from getting what you want. Reason is that some units have really high cargo capacity. For example we're looking at a 5'er that weighs 7350lbs unloaded and has a GVW over 11,000lbs. The 11,000lbs would take some vehicles out of the equation. But by just adding 1200lbs +/- to the UVW of 7350lbs your looking at a loaded weight of 8550lbs. This is just my way of figuring and it may or may not work for you. Since you are new to the RV thing and may or may not know what you will bring when traveling. But to put it in perspective unless your full timing you will never take much more that 1500lbs. IMO I would look for something with a dry sticker weight around 9-10,000lbs. That will give you 10500-11500 loaded. With a 20% pin around 21-2300lbs excluding the hitch. Of course you could go with something lighter so those IMO are max numbers.
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Old 04-26-2013, 03:54 PM   #37
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Can anyone tell me what the maximum GVW of the 5thW I should consider, using the specs for my truck?
Hi, Dude, and

Without the actual weight of your wet and loaded truck, all I can give you is a WAG. 2012 F-250 4x4 CrewCab diesel. That's the heaviest combo Ford makes for an F-250.

GVWR is going to be your limiter, so don't even look at GCWR or tow rating

My WAG for the weight of your wet and loaded truck is 8,500 pounds. That assumes almost nothing is in the truck but you and Sweetheart and Fido and the 5er hitch. No tools or jacks or extra fluid. No bed liner or other heavy options. Of course the scales might prove me wrong, but until you know the actual weight of the wet and loaded F-250, 8,500 pounds is a pretty good estimate.

Your GVWR is 10,000 pounds, so that leaves a max of 1,500 pounds for hitch weight. Many 5ers of the weight you can tow without being overloaded will have about 17% hitch weight. 1500 divided by 0.17 = 8,824.

I don't agree with cumminsfan that you won't use nearly all the payload capacity of any 5er that will gross 8,824 pounds by the middle of third trip. By then, Sweetheart is going to have your RV loaded to almost the GVWR of the trailer. Been there, done that.

So I would look for a 5er with a GVWR not more than about 9,000 pounds. Yes, they make them that light, but they are not as big or tall as what most folks think of when they think of a big fifth wheel camper.

My 2001 Keystone Sprinter 25' mid-profile 5er with one big slide had a GVWR of 7,900 pounds, and it usually grossed at least 7,900 pounds when wet and loaded on the road. We drug that 5er about 100,000 miles all over the USA for over 10 years with a crew similar to yours = Darling Wife, me and one or two dogs. But my '99.5 F-250 CrewCab diesel's GVWR was only 8,800 pounds back then, so we were usually slightly overloaded over the GVWR of the F-250.

But if you want a bit more camper than a 9,000 pounds GVWR 5er, then consider a travel trailer. Because their hitch weight is less percentage than 5ers, you can haul a heavier TT than 5er without being overloaded. And don't fall for the myth that 5ers tow better than TTs. Not true if you buy a good no-sway WD hitch for the TT

Large TTs average about 12.5% hitch weight. So 1,500 pounds hitch weight translates into a TT with GVW of up to 12,000 pounds. That's a lot bigger and roomier RV than a 5er that has a GVWR of 9,000 pounds. If you go that route, don't forget to replace your stock receiver with one rated for 1,500 pounds hitch weigh WD. Your receiver is probably rated for only 1,250 pounds max hitch weight with a WD hitch.

5ers cost more than TTs of the same size and quality. So put that difference into a quality no-sway WD hitch and you're good to go. Your big TT will tow as good as any 5er. I don't have one yet, but I'm saving my sheckles to trade up to a ProPride hitch for my TT.
Trailer Sway Elimination | Sway Control | ProPride, Inc.

As I said up front, my estimated weights are WAGs. That will give you a ballpark idea of what you're looking at. But before you spend any money for an RV, load that F-250 for camping, including people, dog and the hitch, fill up with fuel, and weigh that sucker. I've given you the basic math on how to compute the max weight of any 5er or TT you can tow after you know the actual weight of your F-250. If the math intimidates you, then weigh the truck and post the weights, then I or somebody will do the math for you.
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Old 04-26-2013, 06:49 PM   #38
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Southern Dude, If your F250 is the 10K pkg, it shows a dry weight of 6750 or 6860 depending on wheelbase. Taking the worst case with a full fuel tank, that leaves2865 for your hitch, you and wife, fido, kleenex, and misc fluids not accounted for. Unless you have a fully loaded R-K toolbox, and headache rack, I can't see your truck going over 7500 - 7600 Lb. I think you can comfortably handle a hitch weight of 2K - 2.2K. Either way you will probably want some air bags for a level ride. JMHO.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:24 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
Hi, Dude, and

Without the actual weight of your wet and loaded truck, all I can give you is a WAG. 2012 F-250 4x4 CrewCab diesel. That's the heaviest combo Ford makes for an F-250.

GVWR is going to be your limiter, so don't even look at GCWR or tow rating

My WAG for the weight of your wet and loaded truck is 8,500 pounds. That assumes almost nothing is in the truck but you and Sweetheart and Fido and the 5er hitch. No tools or jacks or extra fluid. No bed liner or other heavy options. Of course the scales might prove me wrong, but until you know the actual weight of the wet and loaded F-250, 8,500 pounds is a pretty good estimate.

Your GVWR is 10,000 pounds, so that leaves a max of 1,500 pounds for hitch weight. Many 5ers of the weight you can tow without being overloaded will have about 17% hitch weight. 1500 divided by 0.17 = 8,824.

I don't agree with cumminsfan that you won't use nearly all the payload capacity of any 5er that will gross 8,824 pounds by the middle of third trip. By then, Sweetheart is going to have your RV loaded to almost the GVWR of the trailer. Been there, done that.

So I would look for a 5er with a GVWR not more than about 9,000 pounds. Yes, they make them that light, but they are not as big or tall as what most folks think of when they think of a big fifth wheel camper.

My 2001 Keystone Sprinter 25' mid-profile 5er with one big slide had a GVWR of 7,900 pounds, and it usually grossed at least 7,900 pounds when wet and loaded on the road. We drug that 5er about 100,000 miles all over the USA for over 10 years with a crew similar to yours = Darling Wife, me and one or two dogs. But my '99.5 F-250 CrewCab diesel's GVWR was only 8,800 pounds back then, so we were usually slightly overloaded over the GVWR of the F-250.

But if you want a bit more camper than a 9,000 pounds GVWR 5er, then consider a travel trailer. Because their hitch weight is less percentage than 5ers, you can haul a heavier TT than 5er without being overloaded. And don't fall for the myth that 5ers tow better than TTs. Not true if you buy a good no-sway WD hitch for the TT

Large TTs average about 12.5% hitch weight. So 1,500 pounds hitch weight translates into a TT with GVW of up to 12,000 pounds. That's a lot bigger and roomier RV than a 5er that has a GVWR of 9,000 pounds. If you go that route, don't forget to replace your stock receiver with one rated for 1,500 pounds hitch weigh WD. Your receiver is probably rated for only 1,250 pounds max hitch weight with a WD hitch.

5ers cost more than TTs of the same size and quality. So put that difference into a quality no-sway WD hitch and you're good to go. Your big TT will tow as good as any 5er. I don't have one yet, but I'm saving my sheckles to trade up to a ProPride hitch for my TT.
Trailer Sway Elimination | Sway Control | ProPride, Inc.

As I said up front, my estimated weights are WAGs. That will give you a ballpark idea of what you're looking at. But before you spend any money for an RV, load that F-250 for camping, including people, dog and the hitch, fill up with fuel, and weigh that sucker. I've given you the basic math on how to compute the max weight of any 5er or TT you can tow after you know the actual weight of your F-250. If the math intimidates you, then weigh the truck and post the weights, then I or somebody will do the math for you.
Thank you Smokey

I was taking some of your advice and I have found a TT that we like.
If you would take a look at the specs and tell me what you think, I know that the final decision rests on me so no worries there. I'm going to try to insert a snippet of our choice. Its an Open Range Journier.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:30 AM   #40
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If you would take a look at the specs and tell me what you think,
The GVWR of that TT is within the guidelines of what I suggested, but the hitch weight is 15% instead of the 12.5% of the average big TT. So with that trailer when wet and loaded for the road you'll probably be overloaded over the GVWR of the F-250.

Here's my logic: Dry hitch weight is 15% of unloaded vehicle weight (UVW) of the trailer (1410 divided by 9385). So you can expect the wet and loaded hitch weight to also be about 15% of the wet and loaded weight of the TT. If your Sweetheart loads the TT to the 11,995 GVWR, and by the third trip she probably will, your hitch weight would be about 1,800 pounds. With that much hitch weight, your wet and loaded F-250 couldn't weigh more than 8,200 pounds before you tied onto the trailer. And I'll bet your wet and loaded F-250 will weigh a lot more than 8,200. So you'll probably be overloaded with that TT.

If you want a TT with three sides and all the bells and whistles that has 15% hitch weight, then you need to back off to a max 10,000 pounds GVWR for the trailer. And even that may be too much trailer if your wet and loaded F-250 weighs more than 8,500 pounds without the trailer.

Again, these weight WAGs and estimates are fine for getting you within the ballpark, but you really need to know the actual weight of your wet and loaded F-250 before you can calculate the max weight of any RV trailer you can tow without being overloaded. I usually estimate the wet and loaded weight of your F-250 at 9,000 pounds, but notice in my earlier post I specified:
Quote:
Originally Posted by earlier post
That assumes almost nothing is in the truck but you and Sweetheart and Fido and the 5er hitch. No tools or jacks or extra fluid. No bed liner or other heavy options.
But if you travel the way I do, with a toolbox full of tools and extra fluids and parts, a heavy floor jack in case of a flat on the trailer, and a spray-in bedliner, then your F-250 is going to weigh more than 8,500. The ball mount and shank for a TT will not be as heavy as the 5er hitch, but then you're nit-picking.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:01 PM   #41
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I bought a 2012 Ram 3500 one month ago. It's a SRW short bed. I pull a 7500 lbs. TT. It's my first diesel and I absolutely love it.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:59 PM   #42
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Yup me to going to head out next week first camping trip with my new 2012 3500 Crew Cab Longhorn.
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