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Old 08-24-2006, 11:24 AM   #1
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Hi fellas, you really know how to convince me!

Well, I posted my question in this forum about which gas tow vehicle I should buy for my new full-timing travel trailer (either the Ford 350 V10 or the GMC 2500/3500) and I'm getting the overwhelming response---- "buy a diesel." So, while they say "the crowd is always wrong", I don't think so this time and so I am really going to consider getting a diesel. I just wonder how much fun driving a diesel around town will be when I am not connected to the trailer.

One thing that doesn't make sense to this blonde----> how can both the GMC 2500 gas model and the same GMC 2500 model in diesel have the exact same maximum towing capacity. You would think the diesel could tow more based on what I am reading on this forum. If they both tow 12,000 max, why get a diesel?

Second, if I buy a 2007 diesel now how does the new low sulfur diesel gas law effect me?

Third, does getting a diesel only make "cost effective sense" if you are going to hang on to the vehicle for a long time?. (I like to drive something new after 4-5 years)

Lastly, is it still a smart decision to get a diesel with the way diesel gas prices are rising? It's 30-40 cents more than regular gas in some places.

See ya on the road, Candy
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Old 08-24-2006, 11:24 AM   #2
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Hi fellas, you really know how to convince me!

Well, I posted my question in this forum about which gas tow vehicle I should buy for my new full-timing travel trailer (either the Ford 350 V10 or the GMC 2500/3500) and I'm getting the overwhelming response---- "buy a diesel." So, while they say "the crowd is always wrong", I don't think so this time and so I am really going to consider getting a diesel. I just wonder how much fun driving a diesel around town will be when I am not connected to the trailer.

One thing that doesn't make sense to this blonde----> how can both the GMC 2500 gas model and the same GMC 2500 model in diesel have the exact same maximum towing capacity. You would think the diesel could tow more based on what I am reading on this forum. If they both tow 12,000 max, why get a diesel?

Second, if I buy a 2007 diesel now how does the new low sulfur diesel gas law effect me?

Third, does getting a diesel only make "cost effective sense" if you are going to hang on to the vehicle for a long time?. (I like to drive something new after 4-5 years)

Lastly, is it still a smart decision to get a diesel with the way diesel gas prices are rising? It's 30-40 cents more than regular gas in some places.

See ya on the road, Candy
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Old 08-24-2006, 02:20 PM   #3
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cANDY nELSON:
Hi fellas, you really know how to convince me!

Well, I posted my question in this forum about which gas tow vehicle I should buy for my new full-timing travel trailer (either the Ford 350 V10 or the GMC 2500/3500) and I'm getting the overwhelming response---- "buy a diesel." So, while they say "the crowd is always wrong", I don't think so this time and so I am really going to consider getting a diesel. I just wonder how much fun driving a diesel around town will be when I am not connected to the trailer.

I have towed with both....they each have advantages and the opposite of course, however the diesel will "pull" better due to higher torque numbers and it probably will be more fuel efficient, however the maintenance costs are higher and as you pointed out , right now the fuel price is higher. We drive he truck without the trailer but it is hard on diesels to make short trips to the store...they prefer to "work"

One thing that doesn't make sense to this blonde----&gt; how can both the GMC 2500 gas model and the same GMC 2500 model in diesel have the exact same maximum towing capacity. You would think the diesel could tow more based on what I am reading on this forum. If they both tow 12,000 max, why get a diesel?


The weight capacities are calculated using brakes/ suspension/frame information, not just engine/transmission capabilities. The companies are pretty careful to ensure that their vehicles can SAFELY tow a certain max weight....and are likely conservative in their figures.


Second, if I buy a 2007 diesel now how does the new low sulfur diesel gas law effect me?


The 2007 model year diesels will require the ULSD that is going to be sold at diesel pumps this fall, however those that are being sold NOW have 2006 MY standards and can use the LSD that we currently can buy. Whether the new fuel will be better (which i believe) or worse is anyone's guess but I don't se it as being a problem per se. HOWEVER, the new standards for the 2007 MY engines will cause many changes and new engine technology and the first year of a new unit is usually not the best to buy.


Third, does getting a diesel only make "cost effective sense" if you are going to hang on to the vehicle for a long time?. (I like to drive something new after 4-5 years)

If you look at a truck as an investment you will always be disappointed....they always go down however diesel trucks tended to hold their value better in the past. If I could predict I would be rich!!

Lastly, is it still a smart decision to get a diesel with the way diesel gas prices are rising? It's 30-40 cents more than regular gas in some places.


It was $.25 t0 $.35 cheaper than gas on my last trip in Northern Ontario (last week) and around here (big oil refineries ) it can fluctuate either way.

I would suggest that you drive both, talk to owners that have had both and then decide what you will be comfortable with. My only real advice is to be realistic as to the towing ratings...note that I have a 2004 F350 diesel and it is near the max load by the time I load the junk in the truck and the 1200-1500 lb pin weight for my under 10,000lb GVW 5th wheel, I am near the 9900lb max allowed by the manufacturer...The truck weighs about 8000 lbs with 2 of us and a tank of fuel...Sales folk will say " You can pull anything" don't believe it! Most "Full Time" type 5th wheels are much too heavy for a standard 350 or 3500 when you calculate the REAL weights (and they are hard to pry out of sales staff that are keen to see your tailights after the sale. Dry weight ratings are pretty much meaningless...if you go by the gross weight you will be close to accurate, and keep in mind that 15% -20% of the gross weight is teh pin weight.
Ian

See ya on the road, Candy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 08-24-2006, 05:18 PM   #4
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Candy did you say what size camper you will get?If you are going to get over a 30 footer maybe a diesel would be better. nThey are built for heavy towing and should last longer. Also a gas burner loses power at high altitude so if any mountain towing is in your future that is another point for the diesel. Have fun picking.
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Old 08-24-2006, 05:22 PM   #5
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Candy

First, welcome to iRV2. Hope you keep coming back.

Your question is very good one and will largely be a matter of personal opinion. This should spark some good feedback on both fronts. In the end, go to a dealer and test drive then pick whichever you like best.

My choice is diesel. Same torque at a lower RPM thus better MPG. Some will argue the additional cost of a diesel outweighs the cost of the fuel. Matter of choice. I like the diesel so that is what I got.
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Old 08-24-2006, 05:30 PM   #6
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Candy let me rethink this a little. My diesel gets about 20mpg empty and 11 towing. You will need some gas figures I dont have but I know they wont be that good. Around town my truck is no diferrent to a gasser except the fuel mileage is better.
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Old 08-25-2006, 07:06 PM   #7
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I drive a Chevy Diesel and love it for towing. I also think about probably never breaking even on costs. Modern gas engines usually last around 150-200 thousand miles with proper maintenance. A diesel about 500-750 thousand, again with proper maintenance. The Chevy big gas engine is an option, as is the diesel engine. You may visit the GM website and "build your own" truck to obtain exact figures and total truck prices. If you plan on trading trucks in 4-5 years I think you will save a lot of money with a gas 8.1 engine. The reduced power in high elevations with a gas engine is because they don't utilize a turbo-charger to compress intake air, as do diesel engines. I haven't read any posts from the gasser folks about low power at altitudes. I think the 8.1 gas engine gets about 12-13 mph empty and about 6-8 towing a 5er, but my memory fails me occasionally.
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Old 08-25-2006, 08:22 PM   #8
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Howdy, welcome to IRV2.

For heavy duty long term towing a diesel is the best way to go. The cost difference is not as bad as some lead you to believe. While a diesel cost will cost about $5K more, look at the used prices sof comparable trucks with and without diesels. You will recoup a lot of the cost when you come to sell.

The diesel will get much better fuel economy towing or empty. Diesels will not loose power at altitude like a gassser.

The properly care for diesel will out last a gassser engine several times over.

If you are pulling at heavy loads and shorter distances, a gasser might do fine for you.

Good luck hunting....

ken
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Old 08-26-2006, 04:45 AM   #9
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I'm with the diesel crowd; there is just no comparison when you hook up the trailer, but most important is to buy the truck you need for the job. Whether you buy the truck or the trailer first, just make sure that your tow ratings are adequate. As stated, the initial cost as well as the maintainance on a diesel is more expensive, but the diesel has more resale value when it's time to sell. Even considering the additional cost for diesel fuel these days, the increased economy might offset it, and you can't put a price on being able to keep up with traffic in most conditions.
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Old 08-26-2006, 06:56 AM   #10
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I have been the diesel route and as long Ford makes the F350 with the V10 I will never own another diesel. The diesel is not cost effective for me with a gross vehicle weight of near 17,000 pounds. My gas mileage loaded runs between 9 and 10, my mileage empty runs between 13 and 14. I have not found a mountain pass here in oregon that I do not have to get out of the throttle to make the corners or get a speeding ticket. I saved 5 grand when i bought the truck, and I save 20 dollars every time i change the oil. i save a few cents on every gallon of gas over a gallon of diesel, and i hear the price of diesel is going up with new ulsd blend and the mileage is going down. Ford V10 the only way to go!
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Old 08-31-2006, 07:47 AM   #11
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Diesels ain't what they used to be. People actually race them now. Consider that current light truck diesel offerings these days have HP ratings well over 350 and torque ratings in the 600s.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:18 AM   #12
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Ya the diesel is an awsome tower, but I also do not drive it in the winter because it is a very cold blooded beast. This is my 2nd PSD, I would love to go with a new chevy duramax for my next truck, but with the price difference (fuel vs gas per gallon and initial $6000 extra for the diesel), and gas being a much better winter vehical, my next truck WILL be a gas.

It does not matter what motor is under the hood when talking about a little 1 ton tinker toy truck, the GCVWR is the same, big block vs, diesel. It is the the frame, drive train, suppention, ect... that make up the tow rating, not just a motor.
Another thing for me, I only keep my tow vehical a max of 100k miles, then I want a new truck. I see no reason to go with a very long lasting diesel motor.
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:17 PM   #13
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I keep reading about how great a diesel engine is for towing. As the driver of a commercial big rig I also know how expensive the maintenence is. You all must be either independently wealthy or just don't care. I do understand the power issue, but why is it always so important yo go as fast as you can? I've read that getting there is half the fun of traveling. Everyday I get passed by a multitued of RVs just going like the wind.Most look alright, but then there are those with the TV dragging in the rear. One wrong move by another motorist and these overloaded TVs are, well, who knows.
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Old 09-03-2006, 11:27 AM   #14
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We tow with a v-10 Ford with a 4.10 RA and the 5 sp. auto. It is an 2005 E-350 van. I am sure the diesel gets better mileage but our gas power does OK. 8.5 mpg to 10.5 mpg towing and 13.5 to 16 mpg w/o the 7500 - 8000# TT.

We just came back from a 4100 mile trip through New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. Had some wiring problems but the motor/trans. was fine. With the a/c running hard at outside temperatures of over 100F., we averaged 9.5 mpg. Most fuel stations in Canada that we saw advertised diesel for less per liter than gas.

It is also a great vehicle for traveling w/o a tt.

Good luck.

Frank
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