Gas vs Diesel engines.

[elkhornsun]

Diesels are great for handling heavy loads on step grades both going up and coming down but there is not going to be a cost savings on fuel. In the USA with diesel prices often higher than premium gas along with the higher initial purchase price one should not buy a diesel to save money.

Where the diesel is most valuable is with a tow load of over 10,000 lbs., or with a heavy payload in heavy traffic where the faster acceleration can be a life saver.

Where people often go wrong with a gas powered tow vehicle is in getting one with the wrong rear end. The 3.73 gearing on a GM truck reduces the towing capacity rating by 25% compared to the 4.10 rear end and many of the newer trucks go down to 3.43 rear ends. The tall gears helps MPG when empty and driving at freeway speeds or faster but makes it very difficult to keep a gas engine up in the high RPM range where it is most efficient.

[IWillRVToo]

"...makes it very difficult to keep a gas engine up in the high RPM range where it is most efficient."

That's what the transmission is for...
I have the 6 speed and can run 60 MPH in 2nd gear.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by IWillRVToo

I have the 6 speed and can run 60 MPH in 2nd gear.

For how many miles up hill in say 100° heat?

[RustyJC]

Originally Posted by elkhornsun

Diesels are great for handling heavy loads on step grades both going up and coming down but there is not going to be a cost savings on fuel. In the USA with diesel prices often higher than premium gas along with the higher initial purchase price one should not buy a diesel to save money.

Using the numbers I quoted earlier, fuel mileage is at least 60% better with the diesel. Since I pay 14% more for fuel, the diesel is still much more economical as far as fuel consumption is concerned than the gasser.

If one will spend some time reviewing the resale values of 5-10 year old trucks, the diesel will have much better resale value (excluding some possible outliers such as the Ford 6.0L) than the gassers. Here in Texas, one recoups most if not all of the premium paid for the diesel at the time of resale or trade.

None of the above addresses the subjective towing experience of the diesel versus the gasser where there really is no comparison - the diesel wins hands down. Having towed with both, I'll not go back to a gasser.

Rusty

[IWillRVToo]

Originally Posted by Mr_D

For how many miles up hill in say 100° heat?

If I was stupid I would do it and tell you how it worked out.
The 5.0 is a spinner, not a torker.
My point is that it is exceptionally easy to use the tranny to "...keep a gas engine up in the high RPM range where it is most efficient."

Diesels are great. However, they are not necessary for many of us.
Our scaled gross weight is + or - 12,550 lbs. That is less than what many of you tow.

[Nitrohorse]

Originally Posted by IWillRVToo

If I was stupid I would do it and tell you how it worked out.
The 5.0 is a spinner, not a torker.
My point is that it is exceptionally easy to use the tranny to "...keep a gas engine up in the high RPM range where it is most efficient."

Diesels are great. However, they are not necessary for many of us.
Our scaled gross weight is + or - 12,550 lbs. That is less than what many of you tow.

I think you nailed it. There's no denying that a diesel will out pull or out "MPG" a gasser.
But I have seen many instances of where a diesel is not necessary for the towing task. I tow my tt approximately 15 times a season. Average distance is ~70 miles each way. My TV is adequate and within all towing specs for the tt and tv. To purchase a diesel in my case would simply add to the initial expense and maintenance costs will little or no benefit. Ironically, the trucking company I work for (top 5 trucking company in the nation) is looking at the feasibility of eventually switching the fleet over to liquid propane for fuel. The maintenance costs are substantial lower than with diesel. Secondly, with the emissions becoming more difficult to meet and the lower life expectancy of the engines due to low sulfur content, the diesel is slowly destin to become obsolete. The diesel is being strangled by the EPA and is suffering as a result. I'm not predicting the immediate demise of the diesel, but the move to alternative fuel engines has begun in ernst within the trucking industry. We got word at work that the private sector will be next on the list for diesel emissions testing at road side checkpoints and annual state inspection sites. I hate to see this happening as I personally believe that it has more to do with filling the government coffers than it does with clean air, but the government intrusion has gained ground with the diesel engine.

[milasman]

One day we will be telling our children/grand children how we use to put "gas/diesel" in our motor homes.

[milasman]

Torque equals pull. They call them diesel locomotives for a reason. Not to many gas powered trains out there. Diesel vs. Gas is right up there with Chevy vs. Ford and all those dang tow dolly vs. Four down threads.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by IWillRVToo

If I was stupid I would do it and tell you how it worked out.
The 5.0 is a spinner, not a torker.
My point is that it is exceptionally easy to use the tranny to "...keep a gas engine up in the high RPM range where it is most efficient."

Diesels are great. However, they are not necessary for many of us.
Our scaled gross weight is + or - 12,550 lbs. That is less than what many of you tow.

You're the one that said you could do it, not me!

That's less than my front axle weight and my rear axle is just over 19,000#'s, then add a dolly and towed for an add'l 5,000+#'s.
Gas engine just won't work for that.

[smiller]

Originally Posted by Nitrohorse

... and the lower life expectancy of the engines due to low sulfur content ...

Can you point us to a reference for this?

[jamesgr81]

It's not so much about torque. A gas engine can produce equal or greater torque than a diesel. It's about rpm and durability. A diesel engine can produce max torque at a much lower speed. Lower speed equals lower wear and greater longevity.

The diesel will pull without having the engine screaming like a gasser. Added bonus is lower operating cost and greater fuel economy. Negative aspects of diesel engines include narrow RPM range of operation, heavier weight, and more expensive to produce.

If your truck spends all of it's life pulling heavy loads diesel is the way to go.

[Nitrohorse]

Originally Posted by smiller

Can you point us to a reference for this?

Sure, no problem. If you want more to read, let me know. The mandate to ULSD has created a myriad of problems. At work, the mechanics are seeing more injector/pump issues than previously with low sulfur fuels. Once the government gets involved, things go to hell in a hand basket rather quickly...


EGR Systems and Lubricating Oil in Diesel Engines

[JohnBoyToo]

to the OP, you are a smart individual to realize that change is not always for the better !

The last 5 vehicles I had have been diesels, but given the small percentage of time we NEED a diesel - a nice strong gasser would just change my complaints from
"Dang, this engine, fuel and maintenance is expensive"
to
"Dang, this mpg is terrible and what's up with all that screaming RPM !!!"

but, with the current rig, I don't think a gasser would do it...

[Scottybdivin]

A gas engine can produce equal or greater torque than a diesel.

Show me a gas engine on the market that puts out 700-800 ft/lbs of torque at any RPM. I have been driving diesel pickups since they 1st came onto the market (minus the Chevy 350 folly). I drove the 6.9L, 7.3L aspirated, 3 of the 7.3L Powerstrokes in Fords, and now a Duramax Allison. Everyone of them went 200K+ and were sold as good reliable trucks.

To me there are three reasons to buy a diesel pickup. 1) you need the heavy towing capability. 2) You are going to drive it for 200K and still have some value left in it. I have found that I get a large percentage of the upfront cost back on the end. That is somewhat regional, but used diesel trucks bring a premium around here. 3) I love the feel of the torque. Nothing like locking the cruise control and having it just groan a little pulling hills that a gasser would always downshift.