Gas vs Diesel for Towing a Fifth Wheel?

[lynnmor]

The Ricardo nonsense is about nine years old and nothing has come of it.

[Cowpie1]

Ah.... the bias does expose itself!

Well, true, it never was scooped up and put into production, but it shows that when the engine is developed to take advantage of the fuel characteristics, it is not a bad fuel.

While you did poo poo the Ricardo design, you failed to mention the Cummins design. That one is a viable product. That one is current and not 9 years old. It was developed with a specific class of commercial van in mind.

And it still shows that there is not a linear correspondence between BTU of the fuel and power output. And it shows that fuel economy can be as good as diesel when the full characteristics of E85 are taken advantage of.

Only in NA gasoline engines does ethanol fall flat. But then, the engines were not developed for the fuel, just adapted to a certain degree to use it. But in some instances, like GM's HP/Torque graph on the 5.3L engine shows a increase of something like 30 hp and 10 lb of torque just in using E85. They did tune the ECM to take some advantage of the fuel and increased timing dramatically. One can do such things with a fuel that has 100 octane. And given that E85 is still 1/2 the cost of diesel fuel, even with the lower MPG, it still is more cost effective to use than diesel. And at least, I don't risk getting sidelined along the road on a very cold night because the filter plugged up. like what happened to me TWICE last night with my diesel. Not too bad though. I can have a fuel filter changed out in less than 10 minutes. But I still don't like doing it along side the road. It is a bummer when one gets a poor batch of diesel. Sure cures any starry eyed notions about how great diesel is.

[96 Softail]

Originally Posted by PopBeavers

Several years ago I bought a new truck for towing a TT. I went with gas because I was only towing within California and I only drove the truck 7k miles per year. The TT was 4k pounds. Gas seemed to make sense to me.

My brother tows heavy, tows across the Rockies and puts a lot of miles on each year. He travels 6-8 months per year. It seems to me that it makes sense for him to have diesel.

From my perspective...

Low miles, light weight, not mountains gas may be the better choice.

High miles, heavy, mountains then diesel is probably the better choice.

^^^Agree

[Nevadastars]

While our fiver is considered "half-ton towable", I would not want to use a half ton with it. But we have lots of mountain grades here in Nevada, and it is much nicer cruising with an engine pulling a long grade at 2200 rpm instead of near 5000. Our previous RV was a Class C V10 Ford gasser and it was brutal listening to that poor engine screaming up some grades when pulling our Jeep Liberty toad. Not to mention the 7 mpg it got, compared to the 10-12 the diesel gets towing.

[archer75]

An exhaust brake is a game changer. Here in the northwest no matter which direction I go i'm going to be traveling over mountains so I went with the diesel. Extra piece of mind. Better mileage and an exhaust brake.

[Bob_C]

Diesel for towing........gas for washing parts....

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by bob caldwell

Diesel for towing........gas for washing parts....

[1bigmess]

Originally Posted by bob caldwell

Diesel for towing........gas for washing parts....

And starting the campfire and bbq grill!

[rarebear.nm]

We live in Santa Fe, NM and mountain passes are a way of life. I would not want to tow anything bigger than my fishing boat with a gasser. I love the exhaust brake and high torque of the RAM 3500 with a diesel engine while towing our 14K lb 5th. Between the exhaust brake, and down shifting I rarely use my service brakes on the mountain downhills- not needed. I also have disk brakes on the trailer for when I do use the service brakes, makes life much easier.

If you love the gassers- have fun with them.

[khuffmanjr]

My first cummins - 2011 - didn't tow. I took my second cummins - 2014 - to 93k miles, most of it towing nearly 11k lbs. Never had issues with the emissions equipment, though I did melt a water pump on the '14 out in eastern AZ in 100+ degree heat. I now have my third cummins - 2018, High Output with Aisin - and I'm a happy man. I won't say I'll never own a gas automobile again, but the chances are good that I can stay pretty far away from them from now on what with Jeep/Dodge set to offer small diesels in the Jeeps and SUVs.

Diesel for life! - hopefully.

Ken

[gmacecsko]

While a gas engine will do the job. I decided to go diesel for a number of reasons. One a being the power, any is you do not have the noise of a high reving engine went pulling a hill. And if you plan on keeping the truck a long time diesel will pay for itself.

[Cowpie1]

That is indeed one of the considerations. If one is going to be running higher elevations and dealing with some long serious grades in the process, diesel can be the best choice. In reality, the majority of folks in the country are not dealing with that scenario. But those who are, choosing diesel would make good sense. And weight factors into it also. There is a weight point where diesel definitely is the better choice.

I really doubt that diesel ever "pays for itself", at least in terms of the average user. The initial cost is higher, and the operational cost over the life cycle of ownership is at best a wash compared to a gasser, and usually more. The only time one really gets full use of the life of a diesel in a pickup is when they are commercially using it, like transporting TT's to dealers or hot shot work. Something where they rack up some serious miles in a year. Otherwise for average users, most times the pickup is dying before the engine ever does or they are trading it off for the latest truck du jour.

And my fuel cost is close to half that of diesel, by using E85 as I currently am, so that even with the substantially lower fuel economy of my 3/4 ton gasser, it is just about a cost per mile break even compared to an equivalent diesel 3/4 ton. So there is no substantive economy advantage of diesel.

Engines, like the L96 6.0L gasser in my current 3/4 ton, have a track record of going well over 300,000 miles without a major repair. Sure, not as long as a diesel will go, but most average pickup users are getting rid of their diesel pickup by the time they rack up those kind of miles anyway. Currently, I don't rack up more than about 6000 miles a year on my 3/4 ton. At that rate, it will do me for a long, long time.

And while it may seem disconcerting for some to have an engine be revving at 4000 RPM under a hard pull, like a gasser, they seem to have no problem with noise. I see a lot of folks that put 5" or 6" "megaphone" tips on their diesel exhaust pipes to generate a loud sound. Never have been able to figure out why they think they need as large of exhaust from a little pickup diesel as I have on my heavy commercial semi truck with an engine over twice the size of theirs. Seems like just another one of those ego things. Certainly a lack of understanding of the thermodynamics of exhaust flow.

[tuffr2]

rearbear - Santa Fe is the highest state capital in the country at approx 7,200 feet elevation. In thed old days before cars had computes car would need to be retuned to run at that elevation. 21% less oxygen really affect gasoline powered vehicles.

To me, the worse senerio would be towing with a gasoline powered truck at 7,000 feet running E85.

I ran E85 one time in Iowa. The gas gage dropped so fast I thought I had a hole in my gas tank. The one fuel about as bad as E85 was Natural Gas.

[lynnmor]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

I ran E85 one time in Iowa. The gas gage dropped so fast I thought I had a hole in my gas tank. The one fuel about as bad as E85 was Natural Gas.

Did you happen to notice that some that tout the use of ethanol are driving diesel trucks in Iowa?