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Old 02-03-2008, 08:44 PM   #29
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This is a good read.

I have a 2005, F150, 4x2, 3.73 gears, Supercrew, Shortbed. It is rated to tow 9,500 trailer and 9,300 fifth wheel. We now tow a 2000 coachman 252RKS on the scale it weights 4,800 lite, 6,280 after loaded ready to go camping. That is a payload of 1,480lb not including my wife and dog. This was done on a certified truck scale at work.

We are now looking at new trailers including light weight 5th wheels. and we will not look at anything that has a GVWR rating over what the truck is rated for. then I have to look at the cargo capacity to make sure that I don't overload the rig.

Last Weekend at the Blue Hen RV Show in Dover DE. I talked to a manufacture rep and he tried to tell me that the only number I had to worry about was the light weight of the trailer. And all the other numbers did not matter as long as it was under your TV rating. He spent 20 ninutes telling me and another older couple that his trailer that had a light weight of 8,864lb was ok for a F150. And the outer couple's truck was a 4x4 with 3.55 gears and that lowered the towing to 8,300.

I know that I will be putting my truck just below what it is rated for. And I would feel better with a F250 or a F350 but it is not in the cards right now.

But how can that guy sleep at night the older couple looked like that were going to buy it.

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Old 02-14-2008, 08:53 AM   #30
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A big part of the problem is the consumers and salesmen.

1. The consumer knows nothing about towing. All the want to do is camp.

2. Salesmen know less AND lie.

This results in overloaded campers all over the roads.

For example: I had a 2006 F250 6.0 with a GVWR of 9800lbs. I was looking at fivers and I knew the ones we were looking at would put us AT or over the GVWR, but kept looking while I was lemon lawing my 2006.

In every lot I pulled into they asked what kind of truck. Every salesmen said I had enough truck to pull anything on their lot and each time I laughed and said not legally or without any exposure to liability.

I contacted my insurance company and asked them which weight, axle or GVWR. After going through many people I got to their RV guy. He said if I exceeded ANY of the listings for the truck I would be at risk.

Okay, fine.. Asked Ford what happens if I exceed the GVWR.. Ford said they "MAY" void my warranty on repairs.

Asked my trooper buddies as they deal with weight far more then I ever did. Their answer, DEPENDS... Some states us GVWR others use Axles weights for a variety of laws.

Quite a mess for some newbies to go through. The easy answer for me is GVWR and GVCWR.. If I don't exceed the GVWR then I don't exceed the axle or tire limits.

When my lemon law went through I simply replaced the F250 truck with a F350 which has a GVWR of 11,400lbs, which doesn't expose me to liabilities of being overloaded and voided warranties. Makes me sleep better at night.


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Old 02-24-2008, 03:11 PM   #31
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Finally! A good discussion about weights where no one is getting lambasted! Good info here folks!

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Old 02-24-2008, 03:34 PM   #32
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Ditto 'woodburner' -- finally a rational discussion on a subject that is many times ridiculed. We went the 1-ton pickup route and while the truck performance was satisfactory, there was no safety margin. Our 5th wheel was right at the limit of the truck, 17,500 lbs.
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Old 03-20-2008, 02:34 PM   #33
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This is a great discussion. The guy I bought my 5th wheel from pulled with a 1997 Toyota Tundra. I thought he must be crazy. He simply said, "I'm in no hurry". I guess the whole idea of emergency maneuvering and stopping hadn't crossed his mind. Absoulutely no margin of safety, I pull the same rig with a 2500HD D/A combo, probably overkill for a 24' 7000lb trailer, but I feel safe.....I doubt he did.
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Old 03-22-2008, 05:30 PM   #34
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When we got the fiver, I went and had it weighted before I loaded it down. It weighted 11,500 with little on it. This was a 1,000 more than gross dry weight, that the manufactory states on their specifications. Since 2003 I have had two 2500 Durmaxs. The first was a 2wd ext cab and this a 4wd CC. I have towed from Maine to Florida with this rig and never had a problem and do not feel unsafe towing it. We probaly got over 40,000 miles on the fiver. I did not want a dually as this is my everyday driver. We only got a car and a truck. I was told when looking at a fiver on a lot that I could tow any thing he sold. He had a 38 ft Fleetwood on his lot and others just as big.
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Old 04-12-2008, 01:37 PM   #35
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sorry if I'm kinda late but let me bring what I consider as important weight ratings that I load my trucks with. I simply use the truck manufactors weights my state says is legal. My state simply uses the truck manufactors GAWRs and tire caps. GVWR is used for registering for a combined weight (truck and trailer for commercial purposes). Knowing what weights your state uses when weighing your truck towing a RV or just a truck load of concrete mix/RR ties/baled hay or pulling a implement trailer with heavy mobile equipment/etc, for overloading is critical. I towed with a CDL for my construction business when hauling my mobile equipment and construction materials. I was required to know which of my trucks manufactors weights state DOTs or state troopers uses to weigh a truck or truck trailer combined. My state uses axle/tire cap either commercial or non commercial as they are the same regs. I'm comfortable towing with max GAWRs/tire caps. I notice you say some pick and choose which numbers to tow with. Simply choosing GVWR to load with fits in that saying also. As some mention others use axle loads or others load using what they want or some say the manufactors rating are worthless or............/etc. Knowing what your truck manufactors weights are and which of those truck weights your state uses to weigh for overloading is all I'm interested in. Check with the state, your truck is registered in, for their input on how they enforce those numbers.

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Old 06-01-2008, 04:45 AM   #36
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JIMNLIN, your advice on checking your own State's
policy on which weight regulation they use might be fine if you never leave your state. By following the GVWR, you know you are legal everywhere. I just passed the written test on the trailer endorsement that is required here in the province of British Columbia for anyone pulling a trailer over 10000 pounds. A large part of this test is making sure you understand how pin weight
is payload and how you MUST stay within your truck's listed GVWR. Here in BC we have government run auto insurance so by taking the government required test on weights and ratings you are completely liable if you tow overweight.
Just an update on my TV situation, a month ago my 05 F350 was written off in an accident.
The good news, my passengers and myself were not hurt. The truck flipped on it's roof and my 3 passengers and myself were hanging upside down.
Shoulder straps are a wonderful safety device.
Please make sure everyone in your vehicle uses them. Anyway, I had to replace my TV, I did a lot of research. I drove them all, believe they are all much better than they were a few years back. I have bought 8 new Fords over the last 35 years but I decided to go with an 08 Silverado LTZ Dually 4X4 with the Dmax. Not my first choice on outside looks, but my favorite interior and IMHO, the nicest driving and riding.
I have mentioned in prior posts I did not want a dually but after 3 weeks of driving it, the big mirrors are the widest part of the truck and seems smaller to me than my 05 F350 SRW because it is lower and about 10" shorter because it is an extended cab LB where my 05 F350 was a CC LB.
None of these big trucks park well in strip malls but this Chevy turns sharper than the Ford did so the extra width so far has not been an issue and this dually rides far better than my SRW Ford ever did. In all the forums I visit and all the RV owners I talk to, the Dmax has a loyal following. My last Ford with a diesel was my 04 6.0 Navistar and I will never own another Navistar engine again which is why I went to the V10 on my 05. The V10 is a great engine and still a good choice for many RVers. The new Dodges are nice also and the Cummins will probably outlive both Dmax or Navistar but I never keep a truck long enough to need a 500 K engine. My number one requirement was a truck that would handle 2600 pounds of pin weight and the other 800 pounds of cargo I need to take.
For this, I needed a dually. So far so good.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:04 PM   #37
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arn't you glad you checked with your state/province for their guidence. The states use our motor vehicle fed regs 49 CFRs for guidence. Towing per GAWRs , not GVWR, is legal in all 48 states. Don't know what other countries use but I've towed commercially and non commercially in most of our states. Commercial haulers tow from border to border and coast to coast per those 49 CFR regs. We as RVers (non commercial) use those same regs to load our trucks. Your correct that just using the truck GVWR will let the truck be under legal issues, but that wasn't my point.
In your country how do you balance the load on the truck ?? At some point FAWR/RAWR/tire caps will have to be used.

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Old 06-06-2008, 01:30 PM   #38
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Please allow me to congratulate everyone involved on this thread for maintaining forum integrity. This has been one of the most educational threads I've read to date without all of the silliness normally associated with a weight thread. Well done folks!
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:01 AM   #39
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i will most assuradly get flamed, flame retartant suit on. i have had a commercial drivers license since 1960 and drove all of my life my point when you drive a truck or trailer over a certain weight you need a special license to do the job, driving is a privilage not a right. the commercial license tests your knowledge not your common sense. a rv license would assure that rv's have the knowledge to handle the equipment they are operating. do i think it will ever come to pass? i do not think so because of personel feelings. it might save a few lives but also might save some accidents but the time to worry about weights are before you buy not after you are locked into a purchase. i would like to see salesman be held accountable for their lies but that is a pipedream, look at the scandals and what the leaders in congress are doing. i had better quit before i get in more trouble.
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:04 AM   #40
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As a truck driver, I think people planning on towng large trailers (over ~10000 lbs.) should have an extra education. I'm routinely pulling 80,000 lbs. and know that the education I got in truck driving school has helped me alot. I also believe it has helped me understand alot more about GAWR, GVWR, proper loading of trailers, etc. I believe if more people would take classes like this, our highways would be alot safer. Most people don't understand very well how weight, loading position, and speed impact stopping distances and maneuverability. Look at how many times a little Civic cuts off a fully loaded semi then locks up there brakes to try and make their exit!!! I believe if people were better eduated they would be better drivers. Just my .02.

I should also note that I am not a fan of government intrusion, overtaxing or using working class Americans to support greedy politicians. In a perfect world, people would seek out this information on their own as a responsible driver, not forced to do it by the govmt.
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Old 06-28-2008, 01:33 PM   #41
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Please I mean no disrespect, but I would like to know how did you arrive at the pin weight of 1980 pounds? Was this taken from the manufacturers brochure, or did you take it to the scales? Reason I ask, is that my Cedar Creek had an advertised pin weight of 1780 pounds and in real life it scales at closer to 3000 pounds when the trailer is loaded and ready to camp.[/QUOTE]

me to we were listed at 1870 pin, but actually run 2700-3000 on the pin.
thanks guys for some good conversation,
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Old 02-14-2009, 09:21 PM   #42
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i currently hold a class a cdl so i may be predjuiced. i think we need some kind of a license for pulling rv's. what kind i have no idea but i have had salesman tell me i could pull anything they had on the lot when i was looking in my buddys i/2 ton pickup. if people don't know anybetter some family could get hurt.that is what i do not want to happen. salesman mostly lie to sell anything. but i think the time has come also if people had to cross the dot scales once a year for a safety check that might help also. there is a reason all trucks are so tightly regulated.

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