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Old 01-07-2015, 11:35 AM   #1
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Good grief

Ok....so I've been towing over loaded for 4 years. So I looked for a year to upgrade my F250 diesel (8800 GVWR & 20,000 GVWR) for an f350 crew cab dually. I finally found one! A 2001 one owner with 112,000 miles perfect body with some frame rust which will take a good weekend to sand and paint. GVWR of 11,500 lbs well over what I will be pulling. Yet when I read the specs from Ford the GCWR is 20,000 the same as the F250. That means I'm still going to be over loaded pulling my 13,300 lb 5th wheel!!!

What the heck.....
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Old 01-07-2015, 11:47 AM   #2
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I had the same dilemma. I have a '99 F350 dually. I found that if you want to increase the GCWR, you need to start looking at the F450. It also needs to have the 4.88 gears.

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Old 01-07-2015, 03:43 PM   #3
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Nothing I can do now. I traded my 2000 F250 in on this F350. Makes no sense....both trucks weigh almost the same with f350 having 3000 lbs more GVWR yet GCWR is the same? Who figures this stuff.

I guess I have a great tax deduction, a year newer and a 100,000 less miles.
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Old 01-07-2015, 04:14 PM   #4
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You have to go 2005 and later with the larger brake disc and heavier frame. My 2005 F250 has more stock spring capacity and registration including GCWR then my neighbour 2000 F350 DW truck. And it's to bad you did had to upgrade. I have been understanding the similarities in the SDs for years ever since I have been towing 20 years ago.
My F250 is equipped with camper package that includes 2 more spring plies on each side then then my neighbour's F350. In addition my registration was 1000 lbs more. I have since then reduced the registration weight capacity to 12000 lbs to keep it under 26000 lbs combined requirement.
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Old 01-07-2015, 07:44 PM   #5
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Another thing I noticed, is that the gear ratio can make the difference too. Same trucks with different ratios, are rated differently. When we were looking to replace our 2003 fifth wheel, I got to checking on my truck's capacities. The same exact truck, with 3.73's against my 3.31's was able to tow a lot more...
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Old 01-07-2015, 08:08 PM   #6
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The weight ratings are predicated on the lowest rated item for the vehicle. Could be the tires, wheels, brakes, axle, frame transmission, differential, etc. the only way to know is to have a factory parts book and compare every part.
That's why only the factory can issue a weight sticker.
On our motorhome Newmar had Spartan replace the 12,000# front axle with a 14,600# unit and also heavy duty wheels. They also issued us a new weight sticker showing the changes.
And yes, the new axle had much bigger brakes as I found out the first time I used them!! Glad I had my seat belt on!
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Old 01-07-2015, 09:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolfsted View Post
Yet when I read the specs from Ford the GCWR is 20,000 the same as the F250. That means I'm still going to be over loaded pulling my 13,300 lb 5th wheel!!!

What the heck.....
There's overloaded, and then there's overloaded. With a 13,300 pound 5er, your F-250 was severely overloaded over the GVWR, but probably only a few hundred pounds overloaded over the GCWR.

Your F-350 DRW will probably still be a few hundred pounds overloaded over the GCWR, and not overloaded at all over the GVWR. Much, much better.

The GCWR tells you the weight you can pull without overheating anything in the drivetrain. If you have full aftermarket gauges installed, then you'll hopefully drive by the gauges and never overheat anything in the drivetrain. So exceeding the GCWR by a few hundred pounds is not a big deal for most experienced trailer towing folks.

But the GVWR is a serious limit. That's the max weight you can have on the two truck axles without exceeding any of the weight limits such as springs, axles, wheel bearings, wheels, tires, frame and brakes.

My '99.5 F-250 PSD CrewCab longbed 4x2 was overloaded with my 8,000-pound 5er over the 8,800 pounds GVWR of the F-250 by a few hundred pounds. But grossing 16,000 pounds on cross-country trips, I was more than 7,000 pounds under the GCWR.

If your Dooley doesn't already have them, then your plan of action should be to modify your Dooley by adding a tranny temp gauge with the sender in the side of the 4R100 tranny, and replacing the oil-to-air (OTA) tranny cooler with one from a 6.0L PSD. And if you hot-rod the engine with a towing tune, then be sure you have a good pyrometer before you use even one more horse. 225 is the tranny temp red line. 1,250 is the pre-turbo EGT red line. DO NOT exceed those red lines if you want the tranny, turbo, and engine to live a full life.

You can reduce the weight in the trailer a little by always traveling with empty holding tanks. Haul only enough fresh water to flush the pottie while on the road. Do not haul heavy cookware and dishes. Aluminum cookware and plastic/paper dishes wok fine.
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Old 01-07-2015, 09:47 PM   #8
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The truck maker may choose any GVWR/FAWR/RAWR/ GCWR/tow rating he wants. There is no formula. And there is no over load violation for being over a GCWR number unless your a commercial truck pulling a commercial trailer operating at a declared GCW which your F350 DRW is one of the more popular LDT for pulling 15k-18k GN trailers.

Your only overload worries is being over a registered weight if your state requires one for the truck or trailer or both or being over the trucks axle/tire load ratings.

If you noticed non of our trucks have a GCWR sticker. Feds safety regs simply don't require it as in some cases a simple gear change or even larger tires and wheels or a different tranny or engine hp can change a trucks makers advertised GCWR number.

IMO I wouldn't worry about being over a GCWR unless were talking a Yugo pulling a big TT.
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Old 01-07-2015, 09:53 PM   #9
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I think I need to have a shot of Maker's Mark after reading this thread so I don't get in trouble again.
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:11 AM   #10
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I feel better now. I really liked the F250 and had all the mods and when I traded it I felt like a traitor it had served me so well. But knowing it was severely over loaded towing the 5er made me a nervous wreck while towing. That won't be an issue now and with the F350 having a long bed no more dented cab corners
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Old 01-08-2015, 12:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
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That won't be an issue now and with the F350 having a long bed no more dented cab corners
Sounds like the voice of experience!
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Old 01-08-2015, 02:49 PM   #12
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I agree with Smokey about putting the 6.0 tranny cooler--or a TruCool or B&M auxilliary tranny cooler. The tuner makes towing so much easier, but he's right about having a pyrometer, tranny temperature and boost gauge--$300ish on Amazon.com. And it doesn't hurt to put a set of air bags on the rear end.

While you're at it, change the tranny fluids and filters and check to see if the thermostat and coolant might need changing. I'd also suggest having the wheels aligned, and have them check the ball joints and ball joints for wear.

I bought new Wagner brake pads on sale the other day for $45 total at RockAuto.com. Cost me $90 to get the front rotors turned and labor to install the pads. You want all brakes and suspension to be at 100% for any heavy towing.
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Old 01-09-2015, 01:18 PM   #13
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LOL....yep. When I bought the 5er I had to borrow my farmers truck with a ball hitch because the 5er had a gooseneck hitch on it and when I made the circle in my drive I hit his cab with the camper and on my first long distance trip to Florida I got in a spot at a truck stop and dented my cab!!!
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Old 01-09-2015, 01:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
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I agree with Smokey about putting the 6.0 tranny cooler--or a TruCool or B&M auxilliary tranny cooler. The tuner makes towing so much easier, but he's right about having a pyrometer, tranny temperature and boost gauge--$300ish on Amazon.com. And it doesn't hurt to put a set of air bags on the rear end.

While you're at it, change the tranny fluids and filters and check to see if the thermostat and coolant might need changing. I'd also suggest having the wheels aligned, and have them check the ball joints and ball joints for wear.

I bought new Wagner brake pads on sale the other day for $45 total at RockAuto.com. Cost me $90 to get the front rotors turned and labor to install the pads. You want all brakes and suspension to be at 100% for any heavy towing.
I did all of that to my F250. So this summer I'll be busy updating this one into a hauler.
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