Community Forums

BigDaddySC · 08-03-2012, 10:30 AM

Hi i'm new here and have read a lot of your comments now I am looking for some advice. My family and I are looking at purchasing our first camper, we are still in the process of deciding between a TT and a 5th wheel. My TV is a F-250 CCSB 7.3L, I currently have a hide away gooseneck ball for pulling, have any of you used the adapters from these to a 5th wheel. Doing my own research I am pretty sure I will need one that is off set due to my truck being a short bed or would it be better to buy a sliding 5th wheel hitch. I am keeping all of my weights into consideration and the heaviest 5th wheel I would look at would be 10,000lbs GVW with a max pin weight of about 1,200 lbs.I would appreciate any and all advice. Thanks.

Roam America · 08-03-2012, 11:32 AM

I towed a light weight 5er (right around what you are looking for) with my `99 F-250 when I had it. If I remember correctly my truck weighed around 7500 # ready to tow with a GVWR of around 8800#. I forget what the GCWR was for that truck. but I think you will find that you are underestimating the pin weight of a 10,000K # trailer. 5th wheel trailers have a pin weight that is roughly 18-20% of the total weight. So a 10,000# trailer would have a pin weight more like 1800#; but it really depends on how you load it up. That is using MAX weights. Once I understood this, a few years later, I bumped to a F350.

That is my editorial so back to your original question. At the time, I used a Reese slider hitch. I made some really tight turns without sliding the hitch, that is until I popped out my rear window one day, then the slider became routine. I then wished I had spent the $$$ on the Pull-Rite slider, as it slides automatically.

Regarding your Gooseneck question, you can search this forum (and the 5th wheel forum) for GooseNeck and see the many threads that have lived in the past. There are some very strong arguments against using them from some folks here that I trust. But I am not technical enough in that area to even attempt to provide any guidance.

Stay tuned. You will get a lot of feedback.

TXiceman · 08-03-2012, 03:37 PM

Goose Neck adapter is not a good idea for a 5er. There are lots of discussions on a G/N adapter and a mechanical engineer,they put additional stresses on the trailer where the pin box attaches to the frame.

As K-Star noted, your pin weight will be closer to 2000# on a 10,000# 5er.

The 3/4 ton trucks of your vintage were 8800# for GVWR and 20,000# for GCWR. A 3/4 ton truck will run out of pin weight long before you reach the GCWR limits.

Ken

Cat320 · 08-03-2012, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXiceman

Goose Neck adapter is not a good idea for a 5er. There are lots of discussions on a G/N adapter and a mechanical engineer,they put additional stresses on the trailer where the pin box attaches to the frame.

As K-Star noted, your pin weight will be closer to 2000# on a 10,000# 5er.

The 3/4 ton trucks of your vintage were 8800# for GVWR and 20,000# for GCWR. A 3/4 ton truck will run out of pin weight long before you reach the GCWR limits.

Ken

Good advice. A G/N will void most warranties.

JIMNLIN · 08-03-2012, 06:38 PM

Do a google on the subject also. Lots of folks using them.

Some 5th wheel trailer manufacturers have beefed their trailers around the pin box mount/frame structure for the use of a GN adapter.

Some 5th wheel manufacturers don't recommed them.

Some 5th wheel manufacturers have no opinion.

The truck will have plenty of axle/tire capacity for carrying pin weights from a 10k trailer.

TXiceman · 08-03-2012, 06:50 PM

BigDaddy, if you want to stay strictly within the truck manufacturers specifications, it says in the small print the you are not to exceed any of the ratings, GVWR, GCWR or GAWR. They do not give the option of picking which one or two you choose to follow and ignore the other.

You will find all sorts of ways people justify overloading a 3/4 ton truck beyond the manufacturers ratings. Just review the ratings, understand the terms used and make the calculations after getting a truck weight. Once you have done this, you can make your own decision about overloading and how comfortable your are with your truck and trailer.

Take a good hard look at the way the front frame of a Goose neck trailer is built. Then look at a 5er. There is no comparison and very few accept the use of a GN adapter.

Ken

Roam America · 08-03-2012, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXiceman

You will find all sorts of ways people justify overloading a 3/4 ton truck beyond the manufacturers ratings. Just review the ratings, understand the terms used and make the calculations after getting a truck weight. Once you have done this, you can make your own decision about overloading and how comfortable your are with your truck and trailer.

Ken

BigDaddy

so true. it is really your choice. `nuff said.

RustyJC · 08-04-2012, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDaddySC

I am keeping all of my weights into consideration and the heaviest 5th wheel I would look at would be 10,000lbs GVW with a max pin weight of about 1,200 lbs.I would appreciate any and all advice. Thanks.

A 5th wheel, unlike a TT, will carry around 20% of its GVW as pin weight. Therefore, a fully loaded 10,000 lb GVWR 5th wheel would have a pin weight of around 2,000 lbs, not 1,200 lbs.

For the reasons enumerated previously, I would strongly advise against the use of the gooseneck adapter. 5th wheel trailers are NOT gooseneck trailers - go do a visual comparison of the frame structure around the crown of the gooseneck versus the pinbox of a 5th wheel. All of that gusseting in the gooseneck is there to resist the torque loading imposed by the gooseneck tube; the 5th wheel isn't designed for those loads. The sliding 5th wheel hitch is the preferred arrangement in your case.

As far as weights, it's ultimately up to you as to whether you want to run in excess of the truck manufacturer's ratings for the vehicle. I would recommend that you stay within ALL the ratings - GCWR, GVWR and both GAWRs - but it's your call.

Rusty

BigDaddySC · 08-04-2012, 06:33 AM

Thanks for the advice the trailer I was looking at was an 08 Cross Road Cruiser it weighed just over 8000 lbs with a pin weigth of just under 1300 lbs. I am not willing to go over my trucks GVW, I have seen guys putting all kinds of add ons to help the rear springs and all but I am not willing to. I will have my wife and kids in the truck with me and I am not willing to put their lives or those around me into danger just to pull something bigger. I am going to do some upgrade on the rear of the truck, either air bag or larger helper spring, not for more load capacity but just simply to not put so much wear and tear on my springs. I use my trucks a great deal and have worn out the springs and had to replace them on my other trucks.

RustyJC · 08-04-2012, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDaddySC

Thanks for the advice the trailer I was looking at was an 08 Cross Road Cruiser it weighed just over 8000 lbs with a pin weigth of just under 1300 lbs.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't look right. Is the GVWR 8,000 lbs, or is that the manufacturer's brochure dry weight? I'm assuming the 1,300 lbs is, again, the manufacturer's brochure dry pin weight, right? We need to know what numbers we're working with if we're going to provide accurate recommendations.

Rusty

TXiceman · 08-04-2012, 07:28 AM

Never use the manufacturers brochure weights. They are based on a base model trailer, no options. Anything listed in the options in the manual has to be added to the weight...like A/C, microwave, awning, batteries, etc. And remember that on a 5er, most of your storage are in forward of the axles and weight here will add to the pin weight. This is why we use a general estimating formula of 18% to 20% of the trailers GVWR as a guide for the loaded pin weight.

The dealer should have a scale that he can give you a pin weight of the trailer as it sets on the lot.

Ken

BigDaddySC · 08-04-2012, 11:59 AM

That was the dry weights, after hearing from you all I will say I am leaning more toward a TT. I liked the idea of a 5th wheel for more control and easier turning, assuming they are like goosenecks I have pulled in the past. I still am keeping an open mind but it's like I've always said getting the trailer started down the road isn't the problem controlling it and stopping it however are a whole different storey.

TXiceman · 08-04-2012, 02:11 PM

We have pulled a 5th wheel many miles, but have always had a dually. Never any issues with the hitch. The GN might doo better fro a farmer or rancher that is off road and in a pasture.

As for a TT, they can be set up to pull well, provided you :
1. get a well balanced trailer. Something with 12% to 15% of total trailer weight on the tongue or load it such that you have enough weight on the tongue.

2.Get a good weight distributing hitch with integral sway control, not a add on friction sway control. A very good and well proven hitch for the money is the Reese Dual Cam HP. If you want to spend a lot more money, look at ProPride or even more money, a Hensley Arrow. A most dealer will try to push a cheaper hitch. A Dual Cam is a bit more trouble to install and set up, so they do not want to spend the time. Any decent tech can mount and set up a Dual Cam in an hour.

As for stopping a trailer, the trailer has brakes and handles the trailer weight. Your brake controller needs to be a good one and I do not care for the inertia controllers like the Prodigy series. Money well spent is to go to a MaxBrake controller which is a hydraulic based unit and ties into the brake lines on the truck. Do not let the doomsday folks try to scare you about tapping into the brake lines.

If you have an integral brake controller on the truck, it will work fine.

Ken

Cat320 · 08-04-2012, 02:21 PM

BigDaddySC, are you looking at a new trailer? From some of your posts, that is the impression I get. Be extremely cautious when talking to the salesman, or an owner if dealing with a private party, regarding what truck can and cannot haul a 5th wheel. All he or she wants to do is make a sale.

Several years ago, while shopping for a truck, I had a salesman, with 17 years experience, tell me the rear axle capacity was also the cargo capacity for the truck. He was quite insistent...until I suggested we go talk to his manager.

Most of the advice you have received on this thread is better than you will get at your average RV or truck dealership. We aren't trying to sell you anything.