Help a Newbie understand how all these acronyms work in my life.

[DavidK2017]

Hey new to towing here, This has probably been asked and answer 5000 times and I apologize. But as a newbie it is nice to see things with your numbers. We just purchased our first truck and of course that leads to the conversation of should we get a trailer now?

So we got a 2016 F150 Supercrew short box. Truck has a 5L with a 3.73 rear axle and the tow package from ford including brake controller. Now I lose a bit of towing capacity is my understanding because I have the sport model and the upgrade 20" tires and fancy rims. (might be wrong but that is what I understand to be true) Now from what I understand my truck has a payload capacity of 3270lbs from the Ford towing document am I reading that correctly?

Secondly my window sticker says I have a GVWR of 7000 lbs so my understanding is that is the maximum the truck can weigh correct? This includes All passenger,the truck, Everything in the cab, the box, the hitch and the tongue weight of the trailer. Am I correct on this? (Before it is asked the truck is till 3Hrs away still so I can't look at the sticker yet)


So how does the payload capacity relate to the GVWR? Do I weigh the truck with all the people and fuel then what ever is left over between that weight and gvwr 7000 lbs is the payload I have left not to exceed max payload 3270Lbs? Or am I out to lunch?

Now on to more fun as per the ford towing document a 5L with a 3.73 and a sport package (Special exception8) can have a GCWR of 14000lbs. But I have a towing capacity listed of 8600lbs.

How do all these numbers jive. I know the GCWR is the max weight the whole thing can weight trailer truck everything. So if the trailer weight is 8600lbs that means the whole truck with everything can only weigh 5400lbs? That seems weird as the base weight of a F150 with 5l is a min 5600lbs. So I have to be reading something wrong here right?


Last thing, Because of 3 kids we would like a quad bunk trailer (Nice and hard to find here in Alberta). We found one tonight that has a dry weight of 4166 and a CCC of 1796. Total 5962 (Lets call is 6100 for fudge factor) Shows to have a hitch weight of 362 (Lets call it 450 for argument sake)

From what I see this truck should haul this no problem. should leave about 7900 lbs for truck weight before getting to 14000, which is actually more then the truck can weigh right so thats a good thing?

Now last thing I swear, This trailer is 29 feet, that truck is only 19 feet. That 10 foot difference seems scary to me. I would have a WDH and sway control.

Thanks for your help once again sorry for the long post. I know it has been asked before I just work better seeing it with my scenario.

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by DavidK2017

Hey new to towing here, This has probably been asked and answer 5000 times and I apologize. But as a newbie it is nice to see things with your numbers. We just purchased our first truck and of course that leads to the conversation of should we get a trailer now?

So we got a 2016 F150 Supercrew short box. Truck has a 5L with a 3.73 rear axle and the tow package from ford including brake controller. Now I lose a bit of towing capacity is my understanding because I have the sport model and the upgrade 20" tires and fancy rims. (might be wrong but that is what I understand to be true) Now from what I understand my truck has a payload capacity of 3270lbs from the Ford towing document am I reading that correctly? Yes-BUT, that depends upon your total (GCWR) gross combined weight rating (truck and trailer combined weight)

Secondly my window sticker says I have a GVWR of 7000 lbs so my understanding is that is the maximum the truck can weigh correct? This includes All passenger,the truck, Everything in the cab, the box, the hitch and the tongue weight of the trailer. Am I correct on this? (Before it is asked the truck is till 3Hrs away still so I can't look at the sticker yet)


So how does the payload capacity relate to the GVWR? Do I weigh the truck with all the people and fuel then what ever is left over between that weight and gvwr 7000 lbs is the payload I have left not to exceed max payload 3270Lbs? Or am I out to lunch? You are correct.

Now on to more fun as per the ford towing document a 5L with a 3.73 and a sport package (Special exception8) can have a GCWR of 14000lbs. But I have a towing capacity listed of 8600lbs.

How do all these numbers jive. I know the GCWR is the max weight the whole thing can weight trailer truck everything. So if the trailer weight is 8600lbs that means the whole truck with everything can only weigh 5400lbs? That seems weird as the base weight of a F150 with 5l is a min 5600lbs. So I have to be reading something wrong here right? You read correctly.


Last thing, Because of 3 kids we would like a quad bunk trailer (Nice and hard to find here in Alberta). We found one tonight that has a dry weight of 4166 and a CCC of 1796. Total 5962 (Lets call is 6100 for fudge factor) Shows to have a hitch weight of 362 (Lets call it 450 for argument sake)

From what I see this truck should haul this no problem. should leave about 7900 lbs for truck weight before getting to 14000, which is actually more then the truck can weigh right so thats a good thing? Sounds right.

Now last thing I swear, This trailer is 29 feet, that truck is only 19 feet. That 10 foot difference seems scary to me. I would have a WDH and sway control. People pull that length all the time, the most important factor is the hitch. I recommend a ProPride hitch or comparable quality.

Thanks for your help once again sorry for the long post. I know it has been asked before I just work better seeing it with my scenario.

I put my answers in red, it was the easiest way for my old brain to work.

[rkresge]

Originally Posted by DavidK2017

Hey new to towing here,

...

Last thing, Because of 3 kids we would like a quad bunk trailer (Nice and hard to find here in Alberta). We found one tonight that has a dry weight of 4166 and a CCC of 1796. Total 5962 (Lets call is 6100 for fudge factor) Shows to have a hitch weight of 362 (Lets call it 450 for argument sake)

From what I see this truck should haul this no problem. should leave about 7900 lbs for truck weight before getting to 14000, which is actually more then the truck can weigh right so thats a good thing?

Overall I can't argue with your numbers, although it also looks like you're trying to make it too complicated. (Been there, done that, still have the tee shirt!)

But I do want to kick around the part I quoted above.

First, don't even think about dry weight of a travel trailer. You're going to load it. Base your thinking on the trailer's GVWR, because that's the real world number. In your case, about 6000 pounds.

Now, here's the thing to consider: Hitch weight for most travel trailers will be about 10-15% of the total weight; it's the way they're designed. That's a hitch weight between 600 and 900 pounds. (Frankly I find that 362 pound number kind of strange.) Anyway, THAT is the number you need to plan for against your truck's payload.

Also, find out what the max hitch weight for your truck is. Will it handle up to 900 pounds? If so, you're probably good.

And then load up. Full tank of gas, passengers, luggage, propane tanks, food, etc. Head for the nearest CAT scale and get yourself weighed. Then, and only then, will you know what your situation really is.

Good luck, and enjoy the ride!!!

Roger

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by DavidK2017

Now from what I understand my truck has a payload capacity of 3270lbs from the Ford towing document am I reading that correctly?

No. Maybe a hair over 2,000, but nowhere near 3,270.

The maximum payload capacity is on the yellow sticker near the door sticker that includes GVWR, GAWRs, tire size and PSI, paint codes, axle code, etc. Notice the phrase "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed...xxxx" That's the max payload for that truck.

Secondly my window sticker says I have a GVWR of 7000 lbs so my understanding is that is the maximum the truck can weigh correct? This includes All passenger,the truck, Everything in the cab, the box, the hitch and the tongue weight of the trailer. Am I correct on this?

Yes.

So how does the payload capacity relate to the GVWR? Do I weigh the truck with all the people and fuel then what ever is left over between that weight and gvwr 7000 lbs is the payload I have left...

GVWR minus the weight of the wet and loaded truck is the remaining payload capacity available for other weight, such as hitch weight, more people and "stuff".

Now on to more fun as per the ford towing document a 5L with a 3.73 and a sport package (Special exception8) can have a GCWR of 14000lbs. But I have a towing capacity listed of 8600lbs.

14,000 minus 8,600 = 5,400 pounds max truck weight.

Or

GCWR (14,000) minus weight of the tow vehicle (5,400) = tow rating (8,600)

So you can tow a trailer that grosses up to 8,600 pounds only when the weight of the truck is 5,400, and provided you don't exceed the GVWR or the hitch weight rating.

Remember algebra I? GCWR does not change, so if the weight of the truck goes up, the tow rating has to come down.

A more realistic set of numbers for that truck is a wet and loaded truck that weighs 6,800 pounds, giving you a realistic max trailer weight of 7,200 pounds without exceeding the pulling power of your pickup. But a 7,200 pound travel trailer will have hitch weight north of 900 pounds. So you probably cannot tow a TT that weighs anywhere near 7,200 pounds without exceeding he payload capacity of your tow vehicle.

How do all these numbers jive. I know the GCWR is the max weight the whole thing can weight trailer truck everything. So if the trailer weight is 8600lbs that means the whole truck with everything can only weigh 5400lbs?

Right. But GCWR tells you only the weight you can PULL without overheating anything in the drivetrain and without being he slowpoke holding up traffic on steep grades. That tow rating of 8,600 pounds ignores GVWR, GAWRs and hitch weight limits, so tow rating is rarely your limiter as to max trailer weight. GVWR (not GCWR) is usually the limiter.

That seems weird as the base weight of a F150 with 5l is a min 5600lbs. So I have to be reading something wrong here right?

No, you're reading it right, but it's even worse than you think. The problem is your wet and loaded pickup full of people and pets and toolbox and jacks and campfire wood and other weight is going to weight a lot more than 5,400 or even 5,600. Try 6,200 for a realistic wet and loaded weight. That leaves you only 800 pounds for max hitch weight. 800 pounds max hitch weight is a TT that grosses only 6,154 pounds, or nowhere near the 8,600 pounds tow rating.

Last thing, Because of 3 kids we would like a quad bunk trailer (Nice and hard to find here in Alberta). We found one tonight that has a dry weight of 4166 and a CCC of 1796. Total 5962 (Lets call is 6100 for fudge factor) Shows to have a hitch weight of 362 (Lets call it 450 for argument sake)

A tandem-axle TT will have average tongue weight of 13% of gross trailer weight. So a 6,100 pound wet and loaded bunkhouse will have tongue weight of about 800 pounds. So instead of 362 or even 450, let's call it 800.

From what I see this truck should haul this no problem. should leave about 7900 lbs for truck weight before getting to 14000, which is actually more then the truck can weigh right so thats a good thing?

Ignore than 14,000 number. That's not your limiter. The limiter is probably that 7,000 pounds GVWR and the resulting payload capacity.

GVWR of the truck minus the weight of the wet and loaded weight of the truck = payload capacity available for hitch weight. Wet and loaded means all the people, pets, coolers, tool box, campfire wood and anything else that might be in the truck when towing. Your tongue weight with that bunkhouse will be about 800 pounds, plus another 100 pound for a good WD hitch = 900 pounds total hitch eight. So if your payload capacity available for hitch weight is less than about 900 pouns, you're probably going to be overloaded with that trailer.

Now last thing I swear, This trailer is 29 feet, that truck is only 19 feet. That 10 foot difference seems scary to me. I would have a WDH and sway control.

If you don't want the tail wagging the dog, then don't buy a cheap WD hitch. You want a very good one that will cost you about $600 from Amazon.com or eTrailer.com. I'd choose one of these:

Blue Ox SwayPro
Equal-I-Zer
Reese Strait-Line trunnion bar
Husky CenterLine HD (not the less expensive TS)

For the Strait-Line, be sure it includes the adjustable shank. Reese sells it both ways, with and without the shank, but you must have the shank.

The Husky CenterLine HD does not come with the Spring bars. You buy the head, then choose the correct spring bars based on the max tongue weight you might ever have.

[Spdracr39]

Originally Posted by SmokeyWren

The Husky CenterLine HD does not come with the Spring bars. You buy the head, then choose the correct spring bars based on the max tongue weight you might ever have.

Mine came with spring bars. You could choose which ones you wanted.

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by spdracr39

Mine came with spring bars. You could choose which ones you wanted.

If yours is the 31390 Centerline HD, then your smart retailer realized the head is worthless without spring bars. But if you order from an online discount source such as Amazon.com, if you don't order the spring bars and pay around $100 extra for them, you won't receive them.

https://www.amazon.com/Husky-31390-C...y+CentrLine+HD

https://www.amazon.com/Husky-31512-C...FR43XVTPWY3F63

The Centerline TS comes with spring bars, and costs about half as much as the CenterLine 31390 HD after you pay extra for the spring bars for the HD:

https://www.amazon.com/Husky-32218-C...y+CentrLine+TS

[DavidK2017]

Thanks for the info, I think I got this nailed down now.

Step 1 weigh truck with people and fuel. That gives its weight.

Step 2 figure out what is left over in 7000# gvwr

Step 3 cry a lite because its not much but still doable

Step 4 break news to wife she cant have the taj ma hall of trailers

Step 5 sleep on couch to be safe

Step 6 determine weight of trailer plus results of step 2 to figure out max trailer weight not to exceed 14000lbs combined

Hitch weight counts against trucks left over number fom step 2.

[tuffr2]

You aluminum alloy body F-150 probably weighs less than you think. I would guess it weighs closer to 5,000lbs, maybe 5,200lbs.

Now, I towed a 5,500lb 22' (box length) camper with a 2011 F-150 5.0 litre engine. That was a nice combination.

Just a general comment, if you are going to stay on secondary roads your truck will do much better than it will on the highway. There is a huge difference from towing 55 - 62 mph vs 65 - 72 mph. On the highway passing semi's will affect you.

The closet you can stay to a 6,000lb. trailer the better off you will be. Else you will be looking for a F-250/350.

Good luck.

[cdoorider]

Originally Posted by DavidK2017

Thanks for the info, I think I got this nailed down now.

Step 1 weigh truck with people and fuel. That gives its weight.

Step 2 figure out what is left over in 7000# gvwr

Step 3 cry a lite because its not much but still doable

Step 4 break news to wife she cant have the taj ma hall of trailers

Step 5 sleep on couch to be safe

Step 6 determine weight of trailer plus results of step 2 to figure out max trailer weight not to exceed 14000lbs combined

Hitch weight counts against trucks left over number fom step 2.

Hi David I'm kind of in the same boat, hell most half ton owners have the same issue. Remember not to carry anything in your truck but fuel and passengers. Putting items in the TT can literally allow you to legally tow a much heavier trailer. Please don't misunderstand I am definitely not saying to overload your TT! I don't have the Ford but I took my half ton to the scales and weighed with and without trailer, my wet weight with hitch and full tank is 5600lbs. If I add a bunch of camping gear, wood, people and ice chest people = 500lbs, ice chest, wood and gear about 500lbs = 6600lbs only leaving 600lbs for tongue, 13% works out to about a 5000lb trailer and that is at the limits. Now if you keep your vehicle light, wet with passengers only, you could literally tow thousands more! I realized how much difference it made using the online calculator

Originally Posted by DavidK2017

Thanks for the info, I think I got this nailed down now.

Step 1 weigh truck with people and fuel. That gives its weight.

Step 2 figure out what is left over in 7000# gvwr

Step 3 cry a lite because its not much but still doable

Step 4 break news to wife she cant have the taj ma hall of trailers

Step 5 sleep on couch to be safe

Step 6 determine weight of trailer plus results of step 2 to figure out max trailer weight not to exceed 14000lbs combined

Hitch weight counts against trucks left over number fom step 2.

Hi David I'm kind of in the same boat, hell most half ton owners have the same issue. Remember not to carry anything in your truck but fuel and passengers. Putting items in the TT can literally allow you to legally tow a much heavier trailer. Please don't misunderstand I am definitely not saying to overload your TT! I don't have the Ford but I took my half ton to the scales and weighed with and without trailer, my wet weight with hitch and full tank is 5600lbs. If I add a bunch of camping gear, wood, people and ice chest people = 500lbs, ice chest, wood and gear about 500lbs = 6600lbs only leaving 600lbs for tongue, 13% works out to about a 5000lb trailer and that is at the limits. Now if you keep your vehicle light, wet with passengers only, you could literally tow thousands more! I realized how much difference it made using the online calculator below. I disagree with many on here about half tons especially the new ones. These trucks are engineered for x amount of weight and if you stay below all your limits your fine. I've pulled triples with a little single screw down cabbage in Eastern OR so I'm used to big loads pushing little tow vehicles. I always watch my mirrors for any sign of problems and always have a way out, it becomes second nature, UPS trains there semi drivers like this, so if something happens you already know the lane next to you is open. I'm fortunate that most all of trip's, I'm the only one in the vehicle. My wife is usually driving our Pathfinder towing the boat and she loads the back of that thing up pretty good. The only thing I usually put in back of truck is ice chest and firewood but now the wood can go in the boat and ice chest in the trailer. I do agree with most of these experienced folks, a larger truck will feel more stable if you tow a lot. If you fulltime, than it shouldn't even be a thought 3/4 ton is the way to go. For me I've found, for the 2 or 3 camping trips a year, I can pull 6 to 7k loaded while staying under gvwr and 20% under TT weight. Use the calculator, be realistic and be safe.

http://fifthwheelst.com/rvtc_calculator.html