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Old 12-01-2011, 10:52 PM   #1
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Help with tow ratings

I am looking at a Sandpiper 365ASQ....41' total length...12275 dry wt....14060 gvwr....I have a 2011 F250, 6.7 Diesel......3.55 rear end....6.5" bed....16200 towing capacity.....I was told I need a F350 Dually for this Fifth Wheel Camper..that this camper was too long for my truck and I would have stability issues....any thoughts would be appreciated...

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Old 12-02-2011, 08:56 AM   #2
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Hi and welcome to the forum.
I am not a member of the weight police but I have pulled a 5er for several years with a 3/4 ton truck.

The first thing you need to understand is the pin weight of the trailer that will be placed on the rear axle. The second thing to remember is all of the weight that the truck will carry, such as hitch, two or more occupants and general items. These could be extra fuel, tools, wood and such. For pin weight I use 20% of the GVW of the trailer. In your case this would be 20% of 14,060 LBS which is 2,812 LBS.

To me this is way too much pin weight for any 3/4 ton truck to pull. You are almost in the range for a MDT vehicle such as a 450F ford of 4500HD C&C model of truck to be safe. Not only do you need to be able to start this load you also need to be able to safely stop this load.

The reason for a DRW truck is that the four tires in the back will spread this load evenly over all four of them. You will not over load the tire and rim maximum allowed weights of any 3/4 or SRW 1 ton truck.
I would suggest that you look for another 5er that will match the 3/4 ton truck load carrying ability better.

I would also look at this web link.
http://changingears.com/rv-sec-tow-vehicle-sizing.shtml

Just my humble opinion.
Jim W.
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:06 AM   #3
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Thanks for you input....I am new to Fifth Wheels....just trying to make an intelligent safe decision......Thanks again!
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:51 AM   #4
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A thing to look at on the DRW versus SRW if you fall into either will work. DRW is obviously wider and harder to use as a daily driver (sight seeing/visitation) but will give you a more stable towing platform as there is more rubber on the road. I moved from a SRW v-10 to a DRW diesel pulling the same trailer. The stability improvement was noticeable.
Diesel vs Gasoline is a separate thing.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:23 AM   #5
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If you could tow that trailer with your 3/4T, and a 1Tdually and an MTD, all equally powered, I am betting you would only need about 5 minutes in the MTD to decide what you need.
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Old 12-02-2011, 02:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bharv View Post
I am looking at a Sandpiper 365ASQ....41' total length...12275 dry wt....14060 gvwr....I have a 2011 F250, 6.7 Diesel......3.55 rear end....6.5" bed....16200 towing capacity.....I was told I need a F350 Dually for this Fifth Wheel Camper..that this camper was too long for my truck and I would have stability issues....any thoughts would be appreciated...

Thanks
With diesel pickups, the towing capacity is nearly the same, whether a 3/4 ton or a dually. The difference is that your 3/4 ton will be way over weight with the heavy pin weight of the 5th wheel. The dually can easily handle the pin weight and be well within the manufacturer's specifications.

Also, the actual towing capacity of ANY vehicle is the GCWR minus the weight of the tow vehicle when ready to tow (including pin weight, etc).
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Old 12-02-2011, 08:59 PM   #7
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The Sandpiper shows a 2000 lb dry hitch weight which after loading may weigh 2500-2700 lbs. Add a 200 lb + hitch and another 200-300 for occupants and your looking at most likely over 3000-3200 lbs of load on the trucks rear axle. The truck may have a unladin rear axle weight of 3000 lbs plus the 3000-3200 lbs load = 6000-6200 lbs. Your F250 has a 6100 RAWR. Your close or over to overloading the trucks rear tires/wheels/springs. Thats fixible by upgrading to the F350 SRW tires/wheels/springs as both trucks are identicle according to Fords Body service guide.

IMO your biggest safety issue of towing a 40' trailer of any type with a F250 or F350 SRW with just two rear tires is pushing in the curves and especially downhill braking on wet pavement going into a curve. The trailer tends to push the back of the truck out which leads to a jacknife situation. Some folks live with it. Their choice.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:13 PM   #8
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355 gears are not compatible for that heavy a trailer. will it pull it, yes, will it pull it comfortably, no. Any grade will bog you down and the transmission will be constantly downshifting. Minimum gearing would be 373 and preferably 410. Way too much trailer for a 3/4 ton truck. You are playing with fire on the capacity of the rear tires. I am on my second dually and wouldn't tow anything that has any weight to it with a srw. JMHO.
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Old 12-03-2011, 05:24 PM   #9
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355 gears are not compatible for that heavy a trailer. will it pull it, yes, will it pull it comfortably, no. Any grade will bog you down and the transmission will be constantly downshifting. Minimum gearing would be 373 and preferably 410. Way too much trailer for a 3/4 ton truck. You are playing with fire on the capacity of the rear tires. I am on my second dually and wouldn't tow anything that has any weight to it with a srw. JMHO.
Frank
I second that. With my F-350 diesel/dually, 410 rear I know my 5th is back there and the one the OP is talking about is heaver yet.
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:05 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Bharv View Post
I am looking at a Sandpiper 365ASQ....41' total length...12275 dry wt....14060 gvwr....
Length doesn't matter. Dry weight is meaningless. The GVWR is 14,060, so the hitch weight is probably going to be over 17% of that, or about 2,000 pounds.

Quote:
I have a 2011 F250, 6.7 Diesel......3.55 rear end....6.5" bed....16200 towing capacity.....
GCWR = 23,500.
GVWR probably = 10,000

Ford's tow rating is useless. Ignore it and compute your own. Load the truck with everything that will be in it on a towing trip - including 5er hitch, sweetheart, crumb snatchers, Rover and Puddy Tat, toolbox full of tools, floor jack, whatever. Go to a truck stop with a CAT scale and fill up with diesel. Then weigh the wet and loaded truck, including driver and everything else. Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded truck from the GVWR and the answer is the max hitch weight you can have without overloading the suspension of your truck. The hitch weight is probably your limiter. But if your wet and loaded truck weighs less than 8,000 pounds, then you might barely squeeze by that test.

However, my '99.5 4x2 weighed about 8,000 pounds before I tied onto the trailer, and I'll bet your newer heavier truck is closer to 8,500 pounds.

If your wet and loaded truck weighs 8,500 pounds, that leaves a max of 1,500 pounds hitch weight without being overloaded. 1,500 pounds hitch weight is a 5er with a GVWR of less than 9,000 pounds. So your trailer with a GVWR of 14,060 is way too much trailer for your F-250.

Only if you pass the GVWR/hitch weight test would you care about the "tow rating". The factory tow rating is GCWR minus the weight of an empty truck with nothing in it but a skinny driver. If your tow rating is 16,200 and your GVWR is 23,500, the Ford assumes your wet and loaded tow vehicle weighs only 7,300 pounds. And your wet and loaded truck is going to weigh several hundred pounds more than 7,300. So that's why I commented earlier that Ford's tow rating is usless.

If the GVWR/hitch weight test hasn't eliminated that 14,060 pound trailer fron consideration, the next test is to subtract the weight of the wet and loaded truck from the GCWR. The answer is the max GVWR of any trailer you should plan to tow. So if your wet and loaded truck weighs 8,500 pounds, subtract that from 23,500 and the answer is 15,000 pounds. So if you had more GVWR (which you get with the F-350 SRW) so you wouldn't have hitch weight limitations, then you could look at 5er trailers with a GVWR up to 15,000 pounds. But you don't have an F-350 SRW, so you have to live within your 10,000 pounds GVWR.
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:42 PM   #11
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The OPs '11 F250 6.7 or the F350 SRW only comes with a 3.31 or 3.55 axle ratio according to Fords Body service guide. The 4.10 is not a option or is it needed with the new auto trannies gearing.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:51 AM   #12
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355 gears are not compatible for that heavy a trailer.

True for older Ford diesels, but not for the '11-up Fords. As JIMNLIN noted, the '11 F-250 diesel is available only with a 3.31 or 3.55 rear axle ratio. Nothing shorter such as 3.73 or 4.10. But with the 3.31 or 3.55 ratio, the GCWR is 23,500 pounds, so it should be able to tow any trailer with GVWR up to around 15,000 pounds without exceeding the GCWR of the tow vehicle. So gearing is not the problem. Suspension is the problem with an '11 F-250 Diesel.

Unfortunately, the '11-up F-250 diesel CrewCab 4x4 with a GVWR of only 10,000 pounds does not have the payload capacity to safely handle more than about 1,500 pounds of hitch weight. That's why Ford makes pickups with more GVWR, such as the F-350 SRW, F-350 DRW and F-450.
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:38 PM   #13
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My F250 has been a great performer towing the trailer in my signiture. Its very stable because I added an extra long ply on the spring pack, The tires are 75PSI when the trailer is off the hitch and 80PSI when on the hitch, exactly what Ford recomends. The long box of my SC Ford might also be an advantage, but its the same feeling as my previous 2500 GM short box was giving me. The rear spring pack of the Ford is far fron the capacity my previous GM had so I reinforced it. With stock spring you will have the feeling that the trailer drives the truck but with the extra ply that even the F350SRW don't have it brings the stability equal to the F350DRW. As for braking the Ford has the best rear braking capacity of all the 3 because of the larger 17" wheels with extra large discs. In addition the Fords are the heaviest TV available to tow these heavy trailers. If the trailer has 3000 pin weight the truck has 11K and the trailer has 12K for a good balance, and my total weight is in spec of 23000 Lbs. The truck has 10K braking power and the trailer has 14K of braking power with 7K axles. .
I am very satisfied with my setup and wonder what I will get for the future truck as I work with my truck and the F350 SRW sits to high and no better then the F250, and I absolutly don't want 2 ft wide fenders in my way.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:51 AM   #14
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... and my total weight is in spec of 23000 Lbs.
Your F-250 has two specs that should not be exceeded when towing. The GCWR of 23,000 pounds is one of them. The other is the GVWR of 10,000 pounds. If you don't exceed either one of those weight limits, then you won't exceed any of the other weight limits such as GAWR or tire capacity. You didn't give the GVW of the truck when hooked up ready for the highway, but I'll bet you're close to a thousand pounds overloaded over the GVWR of your F-250.

Don't get in an accident with that rig where someone gets killed or severely injured, or you'll probably find out that your shade-tree mechanic mod of the rear spring pack doesn't increase the GVWR to your pickup. Any decent trial lawyer will ruin your life.
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