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Old 05-14-2011, 02:29 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Cat320 View Post
... there's no gray area.
This is where I (and I think many others) might take issue.

Real world example:

I weighed my loaded-for-the-road truck and 5th wheel and came out as follows:

Tow vehicle
Front axle weight - 480 under the axle weight rating
Rear axle weight - 860 under the axle weight rating
Total vehicle weight - 60 pounds over the gross vehicle weight rating

Trailer
Axle weight - 980 under the axle weight rating(s)
Total trailer weight - 1,460 under the gross weight rating

Combined
Total gross weight - 5,420 under the gross combined weight rating

If there is no gray area, then I am unsafe (?) with the above weights as I have 60 lbs too much in the truck - but if I have 8 gallons less diesel in the truck (3/4 tank rather than a full tank as weighed), I'm OK. Or if I run with a full tank of fuel and move the wife's 20 lb stash of magazines and the 40 lb ice chest from the back seat of the truck to the rear of the trailer it will make a difference in the longevity, reliability and safety of my rig.

It is difficult for me to believe the weight ratings are that black and white - although I do agree it is better to err on the side of caution and the OP appears to be far over any gray area I would think is reasonable.
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
This is where I (and I think many others) might take issue.

Real world example:

I weighed my loaded-for-the-road truck and 5th wheel and came out as follows:

Tow vehicle
Front axle weight - 480 under the axle weight rating
Rear axle weight - 860 under the axle weight rating
Total vehicle weight - 60 pounds over the gross vehicle weight rating

Trailer
Axle weight - 980 under the axle weight rating(s)
Total trailer weight - 1,460 under the gross weight rating

Combined
Total gross weight - 5,420 under the gross combined weight rating

If there is no gray area, then I am unsafe (?) with the above weights as I have 60 lbs too much in the truck - but if I have 8 gallons less diesel in the truck (3/4 tank rather than a full tank as weighed), I'm OK. Or if I run with a full tank of fuel and move the wife's 20 lb stash of magazines and the 40 lb ice chest from the back seat of the truck to the rear of the trailer it will make a difference in the longevity, reliability and safety of my rig.

It is difficult for me to believe the weight ratings are that black and white - although I do agree it is better to err on the side of caution and the OP appears to be far over any gray area I would think is reasonable.
So what is the question or problem...over is over...black and white. It's up to you to decide what you are going to do about it...if anything. Your truck your decision.
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:46 PM   #17
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The manufacturers also certify GVWR and GCWR.
The only certified weight numbers were refering to is on the trucks certification placard on the drivers side door post. GVWR/FAWR/RAWR are the only weight numbers required by NHTSA/DOT per the FMVSS's. GCWR isn't a FMVSS requirement nor is it on the truck.
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:34 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by JIMNLIN View Post
The only certified weight numbers were refering to is on the trucks certification placard on the drivers side door post. GVWR/FAWR/RAWR are the only weight numbers required by NHTSA/DOT per the FMVSS's. GCWR isn't a FMVSS requirement nor is it on the truck.
Look, we are not talking about commercial motor carriers or DOT/FMCSA regulations. We are discussing manufacturer's weight ratings, and GCWR is one of those. I've already posted links to Dodge's source engineering document where GCWR can be found.

If the OP is running commercial, iRV2.com isn't the forum for getting legal weight advice. If, on the other hand, he's a private RVer (the intended audience of this forum) and has asked for help in interpreting his numbers, there's nothing wrong in helping him figure out where he stands vis-a-vis ALL the manufacturer's weight ratings - GCWR, GVWR, FAWR and RAWR.

Is it mere coincidence that the individuals who seem to want to ignore GVWR and GCWR tend to be those towing 5th wheels with 3/4 ton trucks???

Rusty
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:56 AM   #19
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Is it mere coincidence that the individuals who seem to want to ignore GVWR and GCWR tend to be those towing 5th wheels with 3/4 ton trucks???
Bet it's the same bunch that tear those tags off their mattresses...
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:24 PM   #20
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Is it mere coincidence that the individuals who seem to want to ignore GVWR and GCWR tend to be those towing 5th wheels with 3/4 ton trucks???

Rusty
I used to own a Montana...16k, pin weights north of 3k, pulled it with a D/A dually...but, according to the 250/2500 series drivers, those 3/4 tons handle them just fine.
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Old 05-15-2011, 09:10 PM   #21
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Rusty, you keep throwing the commercial weight regs thing around which only clouds the the OP question.
All vehicles either commercial or non commercial come under NHTSA/DOT weight laws that are enforced by each state. A RV is non commercial and comes under some type of state weight regulations.

My reply you quoted had no mention of commercial vehicles in it so why even bring it up.


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Old 05-15-2011, 09:29 PM   #22
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Bet it's the same bunch that tear those tags off their mattresses...
If that crack was aimed at me you have the wrong person. Cute but no cigar.
The door tag is on our trucks for a reason. Plain and simple certain numbers from that tag will tell a law enforcement officer how much pin weight from a RV or load of redi mix concrete bags/feed/etc the truck can carry on each axle system. My state of Oklahoma says this about the door tag or your matteress tag as you mention:
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to:
1. Knowingly and intentionally destroy, remove, cover, alter or deface, or cause to be destroyed, covered, removed, altered or defaced the trim tag plate of a motor vehicle........ "Trim tag plate" means a plate or tag affixed to a motor vehicle by the manufacturer which displays numbers, symbols, or codes that identify characteristics of the vehicle..... .Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this act shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this act a second or subsequent time shall be guilty of a felony.

That door tag certification label is the holy bible for a LEO to find the trucks load rating.
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Old 05-15-2011, 09:36 PM   #23
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If that crack was aimed at me you have the wrong person. Cute but no cigar.
No, it wasn't directed at you at all, it was merely my attempt at humor - but it apparently struck a nerve.

I'll never tear off another mattress tag - I promise.
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Old 05-16-2011, 05:30 AM   #24
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All vehicles either commercial or non commercial come under NHTSA/DOT weight laws that are enforced by each state. A RV is non commercial and comes under some type of state weight regulations.
I'm going to try this once again, against my better judgement.

We are NOT talking about weight laws - we are talking about manufacturer's weight ratings - ALL of them. That includes GCWR, GVWR, FAWR and RAWR. That's what the OP asked for help with, and that's what I'm attempting to provide. Let's restrict the conversation to that, OK??

Rusty
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:07 PM   #25
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We are NOT talking about weight laws - we are talking about manufacturer's weight ratings - ALL of them. That includes GCWR, GVWR, FAWR and RAWR.That's what the OP asked for help with, and that's what I'm attempting to provide. Let's restrict the conversation to that, OK??
If you as a member of this forum don't want to talk about weight laws I have no issue with you or anyone on that point.
I realize you, as the majority of Rvers, may not understand them from a RVers perspective but some folks do. Your not going to have a question on all of the weight numbers mentioned without someone bringing up real world legal weights laws. Some posters even mention being legal. What are you going to tell them ??
In the mean time any responsible RVer should understand legal issues involving carrying weight and pulling weight.

I think this from IRV2 home page pretty much says it all;

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Old 05-16-2011, 08:17 PM   #26
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No, it wasn't directed at you at all, it was merely my attempt at humor - but it apparently struck a nerve.

I'll never tear off another mattress tag - I promise.
Sorry, I thought you were one of those type folks that think a Ranger/S10/1500/2500/3500 truck comes under 20000 lb max axle weight laws like one web site forum mod pushes.
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Old 05-16-2011, 08:28 PM   #27
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I guess some one thinks engineering degrees are worthless. Politicians and lawyers make laws and have no understanding of engineering. I will take the word for ratings any day over a politician or lawyer.

Ken
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Old 05-17-2011, 03:29 AM   #28
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Quote:
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Is it mere coincidence that the individuals who seem to want to ignore GVWR and GCWR tend to be those towing 5th wheels with 3/4 ton trucks???

Rusty
A rather broad statement there, Rusty. It all depends on the size and weight of the fifth-wheel trailer. My 3/4 ton truck tows the fiver well within limits.
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