Community Forums

Joe Sabeh · 01-23-2006, 10:09 AM

I have a 2005 Dodge Laramie 4x4 with the towing option. I checked the weight and found my rig it 7500 lbs. With a 9000 max I could only pull a fiver with less than 1500 lbs hitch wieght and that is without loading essentials. My question, to all with the towing/weight knowledge, is:

Can I increase my carrying capacity with additional springs or installing air bags at the four coners of the my rig. Getting a new rig is out of the question so I have to use this one.

Joe Sabeh · 01-23-2006, 10:09 AM

I have a 2005 Dodge Laramie 4x4 with the towing option. I checked the weight and found my rig it 7500 lbs. With a 9000 max I could only pull a fiver with less than 1500 lbs hitch wieght and that is without loading essentials. My question, to all with the towing/weight knowledge, is:

Can I increase my carrying capacity with additional springs or installing air bags at the four coners of the my rig. Getting a new rig is out of the question so I have to use this one.

Joe Sabeh · 01-23-2006, 10:12 AM

Sorry I should have added I have the Cummins turbo Diesle with the 4 speed automatic

RustyJC · 01-23-2006, 11:35 AM

First, welcome to iRV2.com. We're glad to have you on board.

Legally, one cannot increase the truck manufacturer's GVWR rating unless modifications are made by a DOT/NHTSA licensed facility and the truck's GVWR (see the driver's door sticker) is retagged by the company that performed the modifications.

Rusty

TXiceman · 01-23-2006, 12:27 PM

Glad to have you on the site. But as Rusty noted, you can do nothing legally to up the weight carry capacity of the truck, short of having it recertified. by whoever does the work. Now with that said, no one checks trucks not in commerical service.

The one question in my mind is what happens if you are involved in a wreck and either your insurance company or the other parties insurance company decides to weigh you truck and trailer and find that you are over the rated load for the truck? Can they go after you fro knowingly exceeding the truck manufacturers rating? With the sue-happy folks in this world today, they can take you to court and just might (probably will) win.

So what ever you do, know the ramifications of your actions and do what ever you feel comfortable doing.

Ken

Miles · 01-23-2006, 04:57 PM

First let me say the above posters are correct. That said the Pin weight on my 5er is 1820. I have added airbags to give me a better ride. It does that. But still doesn't make it legal. If I had to do it over again I would have at least bought a F350 dually. But that is not an option now. When this TV no longer meets my needs I will get a higher rated TV.

Randy the sly old fox · 01-23-2006, 09:40 PM

Is 9000 the GVWR? if so then you also need to check you GAWR for the rear axle. I have seen where if you add the two GAWRs together you get a larger value than the GVWR - so it was possible to overload the overall truck without overloading the axle. Don't forget the CGWR which dictates how much your truck and RV can weigh together.

It sounds like you have your heart set on a 5er. You might want to start with a TT instead as the tounge wt is usually less than a fivers pin wt.

CoastalDav · 01-25-2006, 09:29 AM

Go here to see tow ratings if you have questions about your truck.

http://www-5.dodge.com/vehsuite/TowingGuide.jsp

You can make it tow better but not tow more than the ratting as mentioned above.

Dave

Ken Lenger · 01-25-2006, 09:50 AM

Joe Sabeh: You have now learned why 3/4 ton trucks do not work well for 5th wheels. See the link in my sig on towing weights for more details.

30 years ago, a 3/4 ton truck was considered big enough to tow anything. They had an 8800 lb GVWR and empty weight of around 5000 lbs. Since then we've added 4WD, diesel engines, and crew cabs, but have not increased the GVWR to speak of. A 3/4 ton truck just ain't what it used to be.

Joe Sabeh · 01-25-2006, 12:39 PM

Thank you for your info but I am still a little confused. Looking at the Dodge towing site I find the below:

With 3.73 Axle Ratio You Can Tow 12750 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating(GVWR)[i]=9000
Payload[i]=1915
Curb Weight[i]=7085
Curb WeightFront/Rear=4370/2715
GAWR[i]Front/Rear=5200/6010
Gross Combination Weight Rating(GCWR)[i]=20000

Since the GAWR is 5200/6010 and currently my weights are 4500/2900 Does this mean I can tow with a hitch weight that does not exceed the rear axle weight even though it would put me over the GVWR yet be under the GCWR???

Randy the sly old fox · 01-25-2006, 07:58 PM

Joe, you stumbled into what I was talking about in my previous post. The difference between the sum of the GAWR and the GVWR. If you add the two GAWRs together your GVWR would be 11,210 lbs - a far cry from the 9000 GVWR. What is does mean is you could place your entire 1915 payload on the rear end and still be under the GAWR. The whole point is that the GVWR is the ruling number so 9000 lbs is the most your truck should weigh. As you can see, the tow rating was derived by taking the GCWR of 20,000 lbs and subtracting the curb weight of the truck. This is not the real world. My rule of thumb is as follows. Take the CGWR and subtract the GVWR and use that as the GVWR of the TT. So for your rig it is 20,000 -9,000 = 11,000 lbs. now an 11,000 lb (GVWR) fiver will have about 25% on the pin or about 2750 lbs.which is over your 1915 allowed. Now about that 1915 - you need to actually weigh your truck with a full fuel tank, passengers, and gear. Add to that the weight of the hitch and subtract from the 9000 lbs this is the maximium loaded pin wt. Subtract a few hundred lbs from that number to account for the propane, batteries, gear stowed in the bedroom and the lower compartments. The result will be an approx dry pin wt. From there you can go shopping for a fifth wheel.

RustyJC · 01-26-2006, 04:45 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Joe Sabeh:
With 3.73 Axle Ratio You Can Tow 12750 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating(GVWR)[i]=9000 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Notice that this doesn't specify the type of trailer - conventional ("bumper pull"), gooseneck or 5th wheel. If you get down to the fine print, you'll notice that Dodge (and the other manufacturers) will state that, should you attempt to tow 12750 lbs, none of the truck's other ratings (GAWRs or GVWR) should be exceeded. THIS is where the 3/4 ton truck hits a brick wall - if you attempt to tow a 12750 lb 5th wheel that has 20% of its weight on the pin, that 2550 lbs will be carried by the truck where it counts against GVWR. Using Dodge's 7085 curb weight (substantially understated - go weigh your truck with driver, passengers, accessories, cargo, hitch, full fuel tank, etc. and see what you get) and adding 2550 lbs of pin weight, that gives a GVW for the truck of 9635 lbs.

So, if you go hitch up that 12750 lb 5th wheel that Dodge says you can tow, you will be a minimum of 635 lbs over your truck's GVWR, and likely much more!

Rusty

Joe Sabeh · 01-26-2006, 10:25 AM

Thanks for all the help I guess since I weight in at 7500 lbs fully loaded. I will have to get a fifthwheeler with a pin of about 1000 lbs so there can be some expansion like food, propane, etc. Thanks again for all those that spent time to help me

8isenuf · 01-31-2006, 11:16 AM

Joe

As previously stated, the usual pin weight of a fifth wheel is 15% up to 25% in some cases. Many that have weighed their rigs and posted have listed close to 20% with stuff loaded.

Depending on the interior space needed, you may want to consider a Travel Trailer. Your tongue weight runs considerably lower (10% - 15%). Generally, you can tow a larger/heavier TT with a 3/4 ton truck than fifth wheel. With a TT you'll usually reach the limit of the CGVWR before reaching the GVWR limit.