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Old 06-23-2015, 11:16 PM   #1
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How Much is Too Much?

At the campground we are staying at I noticed a new Raptor TH and I always like to see what is hauling these monsters. I saw it was being towed by either 2014 F250 CC short Bed 6.7. This mad me curious because I thought no way that thing has the capacity to pull THAT trailer. Sure enough, specs on the Raptor come to about 18k loaded and the truck's max is 15,100. Now it was late at night when I noticed the rig so I didn't ask how it towed. I could only imagine they'd saw awesome of course.
Now my question is, how much over weight would be considered "comfortable" with a new diesel?
I know they're putting out over 800ft/lbs of torque, awesome trannys, and great exhaust brakes. I also have read that the 250/2500 are only missing a leaf pack to make it a 350/3500.
Note: not looking to do this myself, just curious
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Old 06-23-2015, 11:43 PM   #2
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Far too many people, have the attitude , " It's my truck ! Nobody can tell me what I can and cannot tow!"
They just buy what the want , never look at the weights , and ..... like hell when the truck overheats on hills or the transmission fails and the manufacturer voids their warranty or they only get 12,000 miles from a set of brakes, or the tires fail due to the overload.

Keeping within the manufacturers posted limits , makes sense in so many ways including liability , having an accident with an overloaded vehicle can lead to trouble with the law( at least here in B.C.) and we all know insurance companies are always looking for an out.
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Old 06-24-2015, 03:55 AM   #3
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Personally, I would never tow over weight. I like a fudge factor of 20 percent or so under. I have seen some ugly occurrences where overweight was a very bad idea.
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Old 06-24-2015, 04:41 AM   #4
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How much overweight would I be comfortable with.. For assorted reasons I kind of have to say zero.. But I suspect a 10%margain in the design.

Here is the problem.. You are looking at this fine big 18,000 pound trailr and you think... "Can my truck tow this?" so you ask the salesman "Can my truck tow this?"

The salesman, thinking "If I tell him no he will walk out the door and not sign on the line" says "NO PROBLEM".. Because to a salesman there is one and only one problem (Potential customer walking out the door without signing a contract).

Then you get the "Ford Builds Tough Truck" ads where they show a F-150 pulling a load that would give an 8000 pause (Very slowely on a closed track) and The 250 owner believes the salesman.

Some folks need shooting.. Not the Owner in the above but most everyone else. (Shoot them with a Kodak please).
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Old 06-24-2015, 06:23 AM   #5
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In the case of the Ford you saw, it is a de-rated on paper SRW 350. The 250 can be ordered/configured with all the exact same parts as a SRW 350 so the 350's specs are the real ones for that truck. No, not on the sticker or on paper, but in reality, it's the same truck. The only possible differences are a taller 4" vs. 2" spacer block under the rear suspension and a single rear upper overload spring. However, many 250's now come with these two items as part of packages. The camper package on the 250's now comes with both.

All that said, I ordered my truck so for less than $800 I got the 350. However, more folks than not buy off the lot and being that it is becoming more common knowledge that the two trucks are identical, people are buying what they get the best deal on.
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Old 06-24-2015, 06:41 AM   #6
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When I was looking at trucks I told a salesman that I needed a dually with an Aisin and a 4.10 rear end, though 3.73 would work. He asked what I was pulling, and when I replied with "21,000# gross fifth wheel" he said that any diesel he had on the lot would pull it. "These trucks are rated to 30,000!" was all he could focus on. Super nice guy, just misinformed. I explained to him the only configuration that Ram has that can pull that much and he didn't have a single truck on his lot that could do it. He went as far as showing me the sales brochure with "30,000# best in class towing capacity!" and again, I had to correct him. He eventually looked it up on the Ram towing calculator and admitted he didn't realize there was a difference. He then said he has customers tell him all the time that they're pulling 30,000# goose necks up and down the road with their SRW Cummins trucks.

Personally, I would prefer to keep my weights under the manufacturer's listed specifications. Hence a 21,000# GVWR trailer and 4.10 gears.


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Old 06-24-2015, 07:08 AM   #7
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My brother bought one of those triple axel Raptors thinking his Ram 2500 V-10 would have no problem towing it. Well he found out very quickly with 6 quads, tools and 4 kids that gas V-10 was not going to work. Ended up buying a 3500 diesel Ram.

I remember following him up the first steep back country road up this mile long steep hill and the V-10 over heated twice. I thing the dry weight of his TH is 9800 lbs. but has a cargo cap of 5000 lbs. it's the model without the walls inside. So he can get 5 quads and a Honda Pilot 400 were he swapped out the 400 for a 700 from a snow machine. That Raptor also had the 150 gallon fresh tank and the 35 gallon fuel tank. So once loaded I would bet he was over 15k.

I have seen 43' TH being towed with F-250's. I would just think anything over 40' one needs a duelly.
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Old 06-24-2015, 07:15 AM   #8
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My brother bought one of those triple axel Raptors thinking his Ram 2500 V-10 would have no problem towing it. Well he found out very quickly with 6 quads, tools and 4 kids that gas V-10 was not going to work. Ended up buying a 3500 diesel Ram.

I remember following him up the first steep back country road up this mile long steep hill and the V-10 over heated twice. I thing the dry weight of his TH is 9800 lbs. but has a cargo cap of 5000 lbs. it's the model without the walls inside. So he can get 5 quads and a Honda Pilot 400 were he swapped out the 400 for a 700 from a snow machine. That Raptor also had the 150 gallon fresh tank and the 35 gallon fuel tank. So once loaded I would bet he was over 15k.

I have seen 43' TH being towed with F-250's. I would just think anything over 40' one needs a duelly.

The V10 was def the weak link there! It was a stout motor back in it's day but working too hard with a load that size. As to whether you need a dually with over 40' it depends more on pin weight than anything else. One of the main reasons I considered my current hauler was it's axle placement gave it a much lighter pin weight than other brands with the same/similar floorplan. Ready to travel with my garage empty and the pin at it's heaviest, it's only 2850# as per the cat scale. Load the garage and the pin goes down a bit. This keeps my 44.5' hauler under all my SRW trucks ratings except GCWR.
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Old 06-24-2015, 07:19 AM   #9
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As Rodney (taken) has hinted at, it's a paper 'thing' to get around insurance and registration plus emission inspection needs at an under 10,000 pound limit. A for instance - my F250CCLB is registered for 8000 pounds but actually weighs in at ~8300, with no load. The sticker says it has a total 10,000 capacity but that means I can only carry ~1700 pounds load, that is people, pets, plus whatever in the cab along with whatever is in the bed. That's ludicrous when you have 800 lb ft of torque wound up by 400 horsepower --- especially when you consider the spring ratings. Since my truck has the diesel, tow package PLUS the 5er option it has 6000 pound capacity front springs and the rears are 6100 pounds for a total of 12,100 pounds of REAL spring capacity by Ford part number which breaks down to a real life bed load capacity of ~4100 pounds. And my tires will support that capacity along with having sufficient cooling and brakes - it really is a high end F350 but without the badges, 4" blocks and sticker. Am I legal - not by how it's registered and stickered. Would I put that much load in my truck - not a chance, but I am hauling about a 2500 pound pin weight, 12,000+ pound 5er with it and very comfortably at normal highway speeds and will continue to do so. I was going to reregister it for 11,200, or an F350 capacity, but that wont change the sticker plus will put me into an emissions test requirement so I wont bother unless I can convince Ford to send me a replacement sticker.

There is a finite limit to what these trucks can haul - and an 18K Raptor Chrome or similar is not my choice (though there was one in our favorite CG being hauled by a Chevy 2500 a couple weeks ago) and is probably outside of sensibility as well as any SRW pickup regardless of the the advertising hype
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Old 06-24-2015, 07:21 AM   #10
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As Rodney (taken) has hinted at, it's a paper 'thing' to get around insurance and registration plus emission inspection needs at an under 10,000 pound limit. A for instance - my F250CCLB is registered for 8000 pounds but actually weighs in at ~8300, with no load. The sticker says it has a total 10,000 capacity but that means I can only carry ~1700 pounds load, that is people, pets, plus whatever in the cab along with whatever is in the bed. That's ludicrous when you have 800 lb ft of torque wound up by 400 horsepower --- especially when you consider the spring ratings. Since my truck has the diesel, tow package PLUS the 5er option it has 6000 pound capacity front springs and the rears are 6100 pounds for a total of 12,100 pounds of REAL spring capacity by Ford part number which breaks down to a real life bed load capacity of ~4100 pounds. And my tires will support that capacity along with having sufficient cooling and brakes - it really is a high end F350 but without the badges, 4" blocks and sticker. Am I legal - not by how it's registered and stickered. Would I put that much load in my truck - not a chance, but I am hauling about a 2500 pound pin weight, 12,000+ pound 5er with it and very comfortably at normal highway speeds and will continue to do so. I was going to reregister it for 11,200, or an F350 capacity, but that wont change the sticker plus will put me into an emissions test requirement so I wont bother unless I can convince Ford to send me a replacement sticker.

There is a finite limit to what these trucks can haul - and an 18K Raptor Chrome or similar is not my choice (though there was one in our favorite CG being hauled by a Chevy 2500 a couple weeks ago) and is probably outside of sensibility as well as any SRW pickup regardless of the the advertising hype
Your rear axle is actually de-rated on paper too as you have the same 7k rear axles as my 11.5k GVWR SRW 350.

As to the Raptor, I don't know it's weights but my XLR 395AMP has a GVWR of 21k and like I said, I'm under on all but GCWR. No, I'll never come close to loading it that heavy but to drive down the campground road and see my truck and trailer, I'm sure there are folks who think I'm crazy.
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Old 06-24-2015, 08:29 AM   #11
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I saw a RV delivery guy towing a big DRV with a F250. I pasted him like he was standing still as he was towing about 55 mph. I did not know this but we were headed to the same dealer. He pulled in 15 minutes after I did. I asked him how his rig towed the DRV and he said 'not well'. Said he was driving slow to try to stay under control.

I made a comment that a commercial delivery guy should have a bigger truck. He said he was new to this line of work and agreed. But he made it!!! I was in Chanute Kansas and DRV'S I believe are built in Indiana.
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Old 06-24-2015, 08:31 AM   #12
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Yep, towing a DRV with any single rear wheel truck is insanity. They 4-5k pin weight... almost twice what I have.
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:03 AM   #13
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I know they're putting out over 800ft/lbs of torque, awesome trannys, and great exhaust brakes. I also have read that the 250/2500 are only missing a leaf pack to make it a 350/3500.
Ignore those folks that encourage you to ignore the weight ratings of any tow vehicle.

There are two weight ratings you should not exceed. GVWR and GCWR.

The GCWR tells you the max combined weight you can PULL without overheating anything in the drivetrain, and without being the slowpoke holding up traffic on steep grades. The "tow rating" is not a weight rating, it is simply the GCWR minus the weight of the empty tow vehicle with no options.

The GVWR tells you the max weight you can have on the two axles of the tow vehicle without exceeding the weight limits of any of the various components of the suspension and frame - suspension, tires, wheels, frame. brakes, etc. That weight limit is determined by professional engineers (PEs), so you should rely on it.

For almost all pickups, the GVWR is your limiter. You can pull a lot heavier trailer than you can haul the hitch weight of that trailer. So weigh the rig on a CAT scale often, and compare the GVW on the axles of the tow vehicle to the GVWR of the tow vehicle.


No, an F-250 CrewCab 4x4 cannot tow any Raptor without exceeding the GVWR of the F-250. The GVWR is 10,000 and the wet and loaded truck ready ready to tow will weigh over 8,000, leaving less than 2,000 for pin weight. The smallest 2015 Raptor TH has GVWR (shipping weight plus carrying capacity) over 16,000 pounds with wet and loaded hitch weight around 3.200 pounds. That's more than 1,200 pounds overloaded. You might can get by with a couple hundred pounds overloaded, but not 1,200 pounds.
2015 Raptor specs
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:36 AM   #14
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Ignore those folks that encourage you to ignore the weight ratings of any tow vehicle.

There are two weight ratings you should not exceed. GVWR and GCWR.

The GCWR tells you the max combined weight you can PULL without overheating anything in the drivetrain, and without being the slowpoke holding up traffic on steep grades. The "tow rating" is not a weight rating, it is simply the GCWR minus the weight of the empty tow vehicle with no options.

The GVWR tells you the max weight you can have on the two axles of the tow vehicle without exceeding the weight limits of any of the various components of the suspension and frame - suspension, tires, wheels, frame. brakes, etc. That weight limit is determined by professional engineers (PEs), so you should rely on it.

For almost all pickups, the GVWR is your limiter. You can pull a lot heavier trailer than you can haul the hitch weight of that trailer. So weigh the rig on a CAT scale often, and compare the GVW on the axles of the tow vehicle to the GVWR of the tow vehicle.


No, an F-250 CrewCab 4x4 cannot tow any Raptor without exceeding the GVWR of the F-250. The GVWR is 10,000 and the wet and loaded truck ready ready to tow will weigh over 8,000, leaving less than 2,000 for pin weight. The smallest 2015 Raptor TH has GVWR (shipping weight plus carrying capacity) over 16,000 pounds with wet and loaded hitch weight around 3.200 pounds. That's more than 1,200 pounds overloaded. You might can get by with a couple hundred pounds overloaded, but not 1,200 pounds.
2015 Raptor specs

Boom. **drops mic, walks off stage**

Very well said.


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