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Old 10-01-2009, 11:51 PM   #15
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Since the (2008) 2500 and 3500 series use different differential gaskets,
My thinking is you don't have 6,900lb cap the dealers told you that you have. Not the same rear end.

Mike
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Old 10-02-2009, 06:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfire1339 View Post
Since the (2008) 2500 and 3500 series use different differential gaskets,
My thinking is you don't have 6,900lb cap the dealers told you that you have. Not the same rear end.

Mike

This is exactly why we tell folks to go by the rating on THEIR truck and not assume that it is essentially the same as another truck.

Ken
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:38 AM   #17
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Vulcangw,
I never called or suggested that you or anyone else is/was stupid. If you took my comments that way, i sincerely apologize.
OK, lets put this whole debate in real simple terms that I can understand since I come from a saw milling background.
If one of my customers buys a machine to sharpen a saw that the manufacturer (me) states has a capacity of 24 inches diameter. Now said customer knowing the rating that I placed on that machine buys it anyhow knowing full well that his saws are 36 inches in diameter, then complains bitterly to me that he cannot sharpen his saws on my machine. How is that my fault? How am I responsible to make my machine which I designed and advertised do something that it was not designed to do? Same applies, if he modifies his machine to work with the 36 inch diameter saw and when it breaks or does not sharpen the saws correctly again complains about my machine not working as advertised? This is especially a dumb line of thinking if I also have a machine that will handle saws up to 48 inch diameter. Why did he buy the smaller machine? One that looks exactly like the bigger one? Was it to save a few hundred dollars? See my dilemma? Manufacturers spends millions of dollars designing a product to meet a certain level of function. Then people seem bent to go out and buy that product and try and make it do something for which the manufacturer did not design it to do.
If we were to take your logic one step farther, why do the open pin mines of the world buy million dollar truck to haul tons of material per trip instead of buying a 1/2 ton pickup and hitching a hugh trailer behind it?
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:33 PM   #18
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Below is a link to a thread that I posted about 2years ago. I have believe that this person felt that they were driving safely and in control while traveling down a 70mph freeway at whatever speed they were going. It was a 3/4T Ford towing a 3 axle 5er.
5th Wheel Involved in Fatal Crash on I5
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Old 10-02-2009, 02:49 PM   #19
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Leave extra room for cago carrying capacity... You'll most asuredly load more over time than you first imagined. I've heard 2,500 lbs for added cargo weight is easy to reach.

Do vehicle manufactures rate vehicle load carrying capacities on a conservative scale? Wouldn't they want to advertise as much as they legitimately can to compete.
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Old 10-03-2009, 11:16 AM   #20
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I think a lot of folks forget to include the fact that they loose load capacity to some of the "options" that Mfg.'s offer...such as diesel, crew cab etc.
I know on our coach, we are at our limits even though it is only 33' long and we have a 350 dually; It has a very heavy pin weight.
Might be better with a longer trailer with a lighter pin but this is what we have and I bought the truck to match the load.
I have watched people with like length trailers (Everest) use an F-250 or a 2500 to tow and it is not pretty...the coach pushes the truck around but they insist they "tow all over with no problems".
I can't imagine using something not intended for the application as some do.
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Old 10-03-2009, 05:56 PM   #21
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There may be no law about towing overweight (I don't know one way or another), but if you are ever in an accident, the lawyers for the person you hit are going to have a field day with you once they find out you were towing overweight.
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Old 10-04-2009, 02:23 AM   #22
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LindaH,

If you are aware of any court case of a lawyer having a field day with a truck/trailer that was "overweight" without violating any law do let me know. As an attorney myself, I am not at all concerned about it.

First, the one who is liable in an accident is the one who CAUSED the accident through his/her NEGLIGENCE. If a person caused an accident by losing control of his/her vehicle, it is the negligent loss of control that is the cause, regardless of whether the loss of control was due to being overweight, falling asleep, talking on a cell phone, etc.

Second, virtually everyone on the road has automobile insurance. As long as the negligent person has enough liability insurance, it is their insurance company who the lawyer will have a "field day" with, not the driver.
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Old 10-04-2009, 09:04 AM   #23
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You do know what it said about lawyers and doctors don't you?
Doctors and lawyers are their one worst clients!
Now, let me ask you one last question. As a lawyer, could the courts not consider it negligence if a person (owner operator) knowingly loaded a vehicle exceeding the manufacturers GVWR/GCWR numbers as posted on that vehicle and drove it on a public thoroughfare? Why?
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Old 10-04-2009, 01:29 PM   #24
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Donn,

Certainly the load limits could be, and most likely would be, considered IF the facts would reasonable support a conclusion that the weight of the truck and trailer had a causal connection to the accident. However, the apparent fact (based on my research) that federal law (and Oregon state law) does not require the operator to stay within those limits is very significant. In order to prove that an operator is negligent by driving a vehicle that is over those limits one must show that the operator had a DUTY to stay under the limits. It would be difficult, in my opinion, to prove such a duty IF the federal government HAS NOT made the load limits a legal requirement. As I have noted previously, I have not been able to find any federal law that requires a pickup truck to stay within the manufacturer's load limits. From what I have reviewed, it appears to me that the Government chose to require MANUFACTURERS to post the limits, but did NOT choose to require the operator to observe those limits. I have not reviewed the legislative history of the law on this issue, but my guess is that Congress wrote the law with the intent of providing information to the consumer/operator, and not with the intent of enforcing a requirement on the consumer/operator.

In my view, the lack of a requirement under the law is most significant. As we all know, driving is highly regulated. There are a number of legal requirements, many of which we are tested on when we apply for a license to drive. Many, if not most or all, of these requirements concern safe operations of the vehicle. These requirements have developed over time, and continue to develop. Note how a number of states (including Washington, close to where I live) have passed laws prohibiting talking on cell phones (unless "hands free") while driving, and other states (including Oregon where I live) are currently considering such laws. And just recently, President Obama issued an Executive Order prohibiting Federal employees from texting while driving. These enactments of law (and executive order) indicate areas of safe driving practices that are of most concern. To say it again, driving "overloaded" to the best of my knowledge is not one of them.

These facts lead to my conclusion that it is up to each individual truck/trailer operator to decide, based on all the information before him/her, what truck and trailer combination that individual can safely handle under the conditions and circumstances they plan on using them. I have chosen my particular combination for a variety of reasons. My choice includes "compromises" (but not compromises of safety in my view); i.e., I would use a Chevy Kodiak if none of these factors of compromise existed. But after considering all these factors, my wife and I decided that a short bed crew cab Chevy was the truck we wanted. We knew full well when getting the truck that we would never be able to pull a Teton Homes, most Hitchhikers, and any but the smallest DRV's. We have made modifications to our truck to accommodate what I have determined is safe hauling of our Cypress, and we have committed to not load up as much as we would otherwise if we had "more truck". We have taken some time going down this road, engaging in a significant amount of research and analysis along the way, and we are very comfortable with our decision (and the ride and feel of our truck/trailer combination). Others, obviously, disagree. So be it. The discussion, nevertheless, has been fun, interesting, and quite informative.

By the way, I will note again (I believe I pointed this out somewhere on this forum), we seriously considered getting a gas Kountry Star motorhome, but after taking it for a spin, noting how it wanted to wonder all over the road (not withstanding the aftermarket steering stabilizer), and how it leaned in the turns, among other things, we both concluded that we felt more stable and secure in our truck with fifth wheel. Our Silverado/Cypress combination tracks straight and true and provides us a very stable and secure feeling going down the road, a feeling that was absent with the motorhome we drove.
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Old 10-04-2009, 04:55 PM   #25
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Since we both are Oregonians, how then you can get a speeding ticket in Oregon for going above the posted speed limit when Oregon law of the road is "Reasonable and Prudent"? I am not trying to be argumentative, but rather trying to figure out how you, me or any one can skirt an issue simple because they feel it is the right thing to do. And after all isn't that the real crux of this discussion. A manufacturer afixes a sticker to a product that states that said product will perform as advertised up to the limit that the sticker lists. Now people go out and assume that they are really smart people and go beyond the limit. When something happens whos fault is it? If some is injured or killed because of that who is to blame?
See, I really do understand where you ar4 coming from. I listed the weights that i towed with my previous truck. trying to go up and down Mt Hood on hwy 26 was always an adventure. No, I did not feel out of control. But coming off from Government Camp I could feel the truck being pushed around by the trailer. That is after I spend the dollars trying to make the truck work. Air bags, and more tire. Towing the exact same trailer down the exact same hill with essentially the exact same load with the proper truck is night and day different. That is one of the reasons I am so anniment about people NOT advising others to load beyong the manufacturers weight limits. I believe it is foolish for people to do so. It would be like you offering legal advise over the phone without ever meeting people and taking their word as gospel about what they were seeking advise.
IMHO people that come on seeking advise about loading/overloading already know that they are over loaded and are simply asking for others to help them justify their actions.

One last thought. As I understand it, the feds only have jurisdiction of the federal highway system ( the interstates) they have no jurisdiction of the state highways. So any laws governing load limits would have to be a state issue, Just like they are with the trucking industry weight limits.
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Old 10-04-2009, 04:55 PM   #26
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That certainly lends a legal thought to the "over the weight" limit.

The fatal accident occurred maybe 4 years ago--and none of the posters have followed up to see if any legal/criminal charges were filed. Were there any lawsuits filed? I have yet to see a case cited where there have been charges brought against an RVer over being at fault in an accident due to running beyond the mfgs weight limits--anyone know of one?

I recently upgraded to an F450 over these limits--not because I felt unsafe with my F350, but because I was wearing it out too fast pulling my trailer. Now the mfgs are headed back the other direction away from axle ratios that they USED to force on us
to get higher tow ratings. Example: first 450s had to have the 4.88 gear to get the 33K rating--then 4.30 is ok--I think now 4.10 will pull the 33K in a Ford. This is all because they need to raise the solo fuel mileage that is a big concern to new Ford owners, IMHO.
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Old 10-04-2009, 04:56 PM   #27
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Enough said on the weight issue. We present the data and calculation procedure and how to read the manufacturers ratings. The trucks have weight limits set by the factory (engineers, marketing and lawyers) which are published.

It is up to the individual truck owner to learn the terms and decide if he can justify exceeding the manufacturers ratings. There are currently no know Federal regulations which limit overloading a trucks factory ratings...so again it is up to the individual to determine his limits and comfort level.

Ken
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Old 10-04-2009, 06:10 PM   #28
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I worked in the airline industry as a engineer for over 34 years and I can tell you we would design right to the FAA requirements. To over design was a decision based on cost to our company. If we could cost justify over designing due to service or manufacturing costs we would do it but not for other reasons. The requirements are a design goal and personaly I take them as max limits. If someone exceeds them then there taking a chanch with the safety of themselvs and there family.

Be carefull, we engage in this activity (RVing) for fun and relaxation not to prove a point.

Dick
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