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Old 12-07-2014, 12:27 AM   #127
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One more thing which is huge, is space. The slides in a trailer are deeper, opposing slides can actually touch in the center which is not allowed in a mh, which translates into square footage. They have taller ceilings making it feel more open. I don't care what anyone says the first 6 feet of a mh never gets used and is a constant reminder that you are in a bus. 32 square feet of single pane glass that is too hot to touch or is ice cold. A trailer feels like a home and a bus is a bus period.
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Old 12-07-2014, 05:32 AM   #128
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Totally agree. Right to the point. I will never have a duelly neither.
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Barbara and Laurent, Hartland Big Country 3500RL. 39 ft long and 15500 GVW.
2005 Ford F250 SD, XL F250 4x4, Long Box, 6.0L Diesel, 6 Speed Stick, Hypertech Max Energy for Fuel mileage of 21 MPusG empty, 12.6 MPusG pulling the BC. ScangaugeII for display..
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Old 12-07-2014, 09:27 AM   #129
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Ok, ya'll talked me out of a MH. At any rate I talk to a friend of my uncle who was an engineer with GM. Both retired from GM ten or so years ago. If I interpreted it correctly, here's what I got from it:

The ratings in the cab are based not only on the frame and some other drive train components, but for a large part on the weakest engine and transmission, producing the least on the ground HP and torque, they offer for that model. Hence the reason the GCWR, tow ratings, etc., are usually listed as the same for a gas and a diesel. His recommendation is that its always better to carry and tow the least amount of weight possible but the hard numbers are:


Regardless of air bags or overload springs, don't load more in the bed than 90% of the lesser of the rear axle and tire rating after deducting the unloaded rear axle weight, or more than 45:1 GCW to torque.


Generally 50% of the weight placed in the cab flows to the rear wheels and impacts the rear axle rating.


With a single wheel truck don't tow a pull behind that weighs more than 185-190% of the trucks weight or a fifth wheel/goose neck that weighs more than 210-215% of the trucks weight.


He went on to say that people typically only consider the tow vehicle for determining stability when much of the problem is weakness in the trailer itself especially with minimum standards RVs. If a 48ft semi-trailer loses it, the tractor is usually going along for the ride, so will most TV pulling RVs
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Old 12-07-2014, 09:53 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fvstringpicker View Post
Ok, ya'll talked me out of a MH. At any rate I talk to a friend of my uncle who was an engineer with GM. Both retired from GM ten or so years ago. If I interpreted it correctly, here's what I got from it:

The ratings in the cab are based not only on the frame and some other drive train components, but for a large part on the weakest engine and transmission, producing the least on the ground HP and torque, they offer for that model. Hence the reason the GCWR, tow ratings, etc., are usually listed as the same for a gas and a diesel. His recommendation is that its always better to carry and tow the least amount of weight possible but the hard numbers are:


Regardless of air bags or overload springs, don't load more in the bed than 90% of the lesser of the rear axle and tire rating after deducting the unloaded rear axle weight, or more than 45:1 GCW to rear wheel torque.


Generally 50% of the weight placed in the cab flows to the rear wheels and impacts the rear axle rating.


With a single wheel truck don't tow a pull behind that weighs more than 185-190% of the trucks weight or a fifth wheel/goose neck that weighs more than 210-215% of the trucks weight.


He went on to say that people typically only consider the tow vehicle for determining stability when much of the problem is weakness in the trailer itself. If a 48ft semi-trailer loses it, the tractor is usually going along for the ride, so will most TV pulling RVs

Gvwr is actually where you run out first. My 2500 crew cab diesel is 8200lbs about 3000 of it is on the rear axel which is 6500 gawr tires are 3640 load, so I'm good on all the components including 190% for the 16k trailer. Not worried about the engine and tranny they are the same as on a 3500. Where I fall short is the 10k gvwr.
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Old 12-07-2014, 09:58 AM   #131
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Oh and truck and trailer are about 24,000lbs 800lbs of torque 30:1 so good there too
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Old 12-07-2014, 10:21 AM   #132
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When loaded, how much do have sitting in the bed of the truck?
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Old 12-07-2014, 10:24 AM   #133
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Haven't been to the scale with the combo yet, next time I move I'll know for sure, but I calculate about a 2600lb pin which would be about 5600 on the rear axle.
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Old 12-07-2014, 10:46 AM   #134
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Looks like you have about 3500lbs of absolute rear wheel capacity. If my contact's numbers are valid, 90% gives you 3150 available carrying capacity on the rear wheels. If you add 800 lbs to the cab, 400 will be on the rear wheels. (50% distribution tween front and back) According to the retired engineer, the GCVR considers the lowest HP and torque available. The GCRW, as best I understand is the maximum tow rating + the GVWR. If he is right with 800 in the cab and 2600 pin, looks like you ain't going to have much of a problem. Id bet the frame on your 2500 and a 3500 are identical. A frame straightening shop can tell you.

The weight police are going to be on me like white on rice, but what he told me makes a lot of sense. And he said if he still worked for um, he couldn't tell me this stuff.
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Old 12-07-2014, 10:51 AM   #135
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Right, I actually have room to spare if my calculations are wrong, but I am over on the trucks gvwr, and that is a typical weak point for fifth wheel towing. I'm not concerned, but I would prefer to be within gvwr
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Old 12-07-2014, 11:19 AM   #136
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I would to but unless I go to an ultralight, I ain't gonna make it. I've decided I want to stay below 2,000-2,200 pin weight if possible. Here's the thing I think about when reading the published numbers. The specs say I have 660 lbs of torque. I dyno at more than that at the rear wheels, stock, with the exception of a Banks RamAir and 4" exhaust. (and on the dynamometer, it wasn't getting a lot of "ram air). When much, much younger, I had a Dodge with a detuned 426 "street hemi" that was spec'd at 425 hp It dyno'd at 477 hp, completely stock. Its factory specs were certified for insurance purposes.
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Old 12-07-2014, 11:32 AM   #137
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I don't think the motor you have is in question, 660lbs of torque means the motor and tranny can handle about 29,000lb combo. What is your truck?
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Old 12-07-2014, 11:39 AM   #138
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The other thing to consider is pin weights vary quite a bit from model to model and manufacturer to manufacturer. Our trailer is quite large but our pin weight is less than other trailers that are shorter and lighter. It just depends on where the manufacturer put the axles. I see all sorts of makes and models being towed quite reliably with a 2500, there's definitely more 2500 at the campgrounds than 1tons a duallies combined.
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Old 12-07-2014, 11:41 AM   #139
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Rather than give you my .02cents, I will give you my $2,000 advice.

If you have a family, you make Judge Judy decisions. Because if you are in an accident, the judge is gonna see you were out of compliance and you will eat it. And your insurance company won't put up with your bs or wonderful logic either.

We live in a litigious society.

So, get into compliance, get some driver training, fly straight, safe, and with lots of extra safety/financial margin.

And, because you were dumb enough to write all this stuff in this forum, your posts will be brought into evidence against you should they, the attorney, be able to and probably will be able to link you to your forum name. You were in knowledge you were driving unsafe, you with aforethought drove unsafely, and are fully liable.
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Old 12-07-2014, 11:49 AM   #140
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Most 5th wheels are designed with a 2000 to 2500lb dry pin weight
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