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Old 12-07-2014, 06:58 PM   #155
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So what has the OP decided to do?
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Old 12-07-2014, 07:00 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
Some seem to hold others to a higher standard than themselves.
Actually what happens that greatly contributes GD are the RV Mfg, RV dealers, and truck dealers selling vehicles they know damn well are pushing the envelop. Our man Erlingiii was sold a truck, after consulting with both the rv dealer and the truck dealer that, "the 2500 will do the job" only to find out that he's likely over the rating. Most folks, me being one, don't like and can ill afford to be led down the primrose path by dealers. We're oftentimes faced with either to tow, hopefully, only a little over the limit, spend more money than we intended upgrading the tow vehicle, of losing a ton selling or trading our now used rig, all because we relied on the dealers. I lucked out because I withdrew the offer when the dealer wouldn't guarantee to pin weight, as it sit on the lot, wouldn't be more than 100 lbs more than stated (at 1,705). I could have very well been sold a trailer that would put me over the limit if I didn't errr... pin the dealer down.
I submit, we're not holding them (the dealer/mfg) to a higher standard than ourselves. We now have to adjust own standards, taking more risk, losing money, because we believed they had high standards and we relied on what they told us.
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Old 12-07-2014, 07:32 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Us out West View Post
So what has the OP decided to do?

I will keep the truck until I can trade up with a reasonable loss. In the mean time, I added airbags, we keep the basement empty and packed it all in our cargo trailer that my wife pulls behind our Yukon. We keep the tanks empty except for 10-20 gallons to flush the toilet. I also only have one propane tank while traveling the other and the spare are in the cargo trailer. We are also looking at a genset that I will have mounted to the back bumper of the trailer. Probably won't get it to the scales until the end of January. Got my fingers crossed.
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Old 12-07-2014, 07:50 PM   #158
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So, in all of this, you have not been to the scales with the truck and TT? All this is just "best guess" as to actual weights?
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Old 12-07-2014, 07:55 PM   #159
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So, in all of this, you have not been to the scales with the truck and TT? All this is just "best guess" as to actual weights?

I haven't been to the scales with the changes, before the changes I was 700 over gvwr.
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Old 12-07-2014, 08:00 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Erlingiii View Post
So Gordon, can you assure the class that you have never driven on a road that is rated less than the at least 20 tons that your rig weighs. I imagine your rig with the stacker is approaching the 60,000 gcwr. Is that stacker 18,000 lb gvwr cause your Winnie is only rated for 15000, maybe you don't load it that heavily. But I find it hard to believe you've never passed a 13ton weight limit sign. Just sayin.

Good points. The trailer is a 18000 GVWR. The 13,000 the trailer is loaded to with everything in it will be what I will carry. I could have gone to a tandem with 7 - 8,000 axles but the triaxle is lighter on the hitch. The 450 truck can pull it at 18,000 but there is nothing I have to load that will increase the weight.

I paid a premium to get a light trailer in order to meet the 15,000 limit on the MH. I attempted to get a heavier hitch installed but was told it was not possible. That amounted to a significant price increase from the HaulMark to the InTech.

I have yet to encounter a 13 ton weight restriction. If I do I will have to make a decision. If it is on a bridge I will turn around because that is likely the bridge limit. If it is a road restriction on commercial traffic and I am going to a campground just down the road ? ? ? I am not licenced by weight. Regardless I would never advise anyone to pass a 13 ton sign because I have done it successfully for years, etc, etc, etc.

I realize you are caught between a rock and a hard place with your acquisitions. I would be hard pressed to do anything different than you are doing.
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Old 12-08-2014, 11:27 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fvstringpicker View Post
Actually what happens that greatly contributes GD are the RV Mfg, RV dealers, and truck dealers selling vehicles they know damn well are pushing the envelop. Our man Erlingiii was sold a truck, after consulting with both the rv dealer and the truck dealer that, "the 2500 will do the job" only to find out that he's likely over the rating. Most folks, me being one, don't like and can ill afford to be led down the primrose path by dealers. We're oftentimes faced with either to tow, hopefully, only a little over the limit, spend more money than we intended upgrading the tow vehicle, of losing a ton selling or trading our now used rig, all because we relied on the dealers. I lucked out because I withdrew the offer when the dealer wouldn't guarantee to pin weight, as it sit on the lot, wouldn't be more than 100 lbs more than stated (at 1,705). I could have very well been sold a trailer that would put me over the limit if I didn't errr... pin the dealer down.
I submit, we're not holding them (the dealer/mfg) to a higher standard than ourselves. We now have to adjust own standards, taking more risk, losing money, because we believed they had high standards and we relied on what they told us.
I agree with what you are saying. Marketing is leading us all down paths we should not go. If we look around at all of the promises that are made we have to be skeptical. Airplane landing on a little truck, saves the day?? If it sounds to good to be true . . . .

My comments were made on the thread as generalizations. One poster commented that he had been an officer of the law and ran a towing company without any issues. Written in a manner that suggests he was overweight and had never been to court. A tacit indication that it is unlikely you will be caught - so go ahead. Does this attitude support the marketing? Seems to.

Yes the OP was taken advantage of by what I consider unscrupulous dealers. Yes it will be costly to rectify. Should he take them to court? Possibly. Unfortunately he will be dealing with two dealers. If everything was fair he should have no difficulty winning. Given the inconsistencies of the courts today. Problematic.

Erlingii seems to be well balanced. He recognizes and is concerned about the problem and is doing what he physically can to mitigate the problem.

Can it be solved? Probably. Trailer Toad says they are able to remove all of the weight from the TV. Yes it will cost a bit but then the loading problem will go away (if Trailer Toad works as they market). Also may eliminate the need to upgrade the TV if the numbers are correct.

It is concerning when you read the number of posters who support being out of limits by saying it is OK because they do it and have never been caught. Some of those posters are on other threads complaining when neighbors run generators or make noise within quiet hours or other like issues.
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Old 12-08-2014, 02:30 PM   #162
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I'm still waiting for someone to show where you have to tow under the ratings. So far I've yet to see some form of law on this. Yes some states require the proper weights when registering the truck and trailer. Where I live there's no fee per GVW at the DMV when registering. Never ever seen or heard of a person being pulled over with a trailer or 5th wheel for being overloaded. LEO's have better things to do IMO. It's all speculation and internet hype/myth on this subject. No one is purposely endorsing towing over weight. But the simple fact that people do and do without consequences just proves that the sky won't fall when doing so. I would be willing to wager that accidents from towing over weight are at the bottom of the list. Drunk drivers account for far more accidents.
Yes it's true that just because someone else is doing it that doesn't make it right. But that is also no reason to chastise someone for towing a few 100lbs over GVW. I find that people that like to be weight police are those that don't really have a real world working knowledge of things. They're office workers that haven't been out working with their hands building things. Usually they just go by what's written, not by what common sense tells you.


This topic gets beat to death on every RV forum. What's actually interesting is reading brand forums, there's a lot more common sense tolerance when weights are concerned. RV.net is the tops in weight police. You need a dually to tow a pop up over there. Reality sets in when you walk around a CG and see what's towing what. I always point out a few that are towing over to the wife and laugh. I tell her they'd be chastised on the net. Funny thing is these are guys with 5-10 year old trucks and 5-10 year old trailers. That means they've been on the road for 1000's of miles. I guess they never got the weight police memo.
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Old 12-08-2014, 02:55 PM   #163
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Towing World Official Website

RV Towing Laws by State - HowStuffWorks

Sounds naive to think there are no regulations and laws regarding towing RV. Did a quick search on the net and found the above links. If one were to take the time and do an in depth search I am sure there would be much more detailed information.

It is unfortunate when folks try to defend untenable positions by trying to dismiss opposing opinions by resorting to name calling. The entire idea of a forum is to discuss differing opinions for the betterment of the interest group and the education of people who are learning.
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Old 12-08-2014, 03:04 PM   #164
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Could not have said it better. Years ago one dealer told me that trailers were coming in with broken pinboxes. And his instructions were that they were towing a light trailer with to heavy a truck. Now the solution to this is by having flexible pin boxes. I never needed one because my drive is smooth and the spring and tires take the jar of the rough roads here in the great north..
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Old 12-08-2014, 06:49 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Erlingiii View Post
I will keep the truck until I can trade up with a reasonable loss. In the mean time, I added airbags, we keep the basement empty and packed it all in our cargo trailer that my wife pulls behind our Yukon. We keep the tanks empty except for 10-20 gallons to flush the toilet. I also only have one propane tank while traveling the other and the spare are in the cargo trailer. We are also looking at a genset that I will have mounted to the back bumper of the trailer. Probably won't get it to the scales until the end of January. Got my fingers crossed.
Good for you. Don't listen to the wanna be experts. Tow carefully and have fun. There really aren't that many skilled drivers anyway. Talk is cheap and so is spending other people's money.
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Old 12-08-2014, 06:53 PM   #166
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Part of the problem is the lack of standards, at least until recently, in the tow testing. The marketing department puts out advertising information on the "tow ability" based on a truck with the least options available and a 150 lb driver whereas, according to the engineer I talked with, the official weight classification found on the door is based on the least common denominator for that particular model. Engine, cooling system, and transmission figure into the equation along with frame, brakes, and other drive train components,. Common sense tells you that the diesel engine with the allison six speed transmission (gmc/duramax) with 700+ lbs torque can tow significantly more weight on grade than the gasser model with half the torque. Yet the duramax/allison, that just sounds like it can tow anything, gets the same GVWR as the gasser despite the engine and transmission being a big factor, according to my source, in computing the official GVWR published on the door.
Neither do the maximum tow rating reconcile with the GVWR when considering a goose neck or fifth wheel hitch. My "tow rating" 14,200. If you consider 20% on a fifth wheel, I'd be about 800 over GVWR and pushing the envelope on the axel rating.
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Old 12-08-2014, 10:35 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
Towing World Official Website

RV Towing Laws by State - HowStuffWorks

Sounds naive to think there are no regulations and laws regarding towing RV. Did a quick search on the net and found the above links. If one were to take the time and do an in depth search I am sure there would be much more detailed information.

It is unfortunate when folks try to defend untenable positions by trying to dismiss opposing opinions by resorting to name calling. The entire idea of a forum is to discuss differing opinions for the betterment of the interest group and the education of people who are learning.
Yeah...best bet is contact your states size and weight folks a get their input. That will separate RV myth from what can be actually enforced.

Coming from a private and commercial hauling back ground it always amused me at the comments on RV websites that a RV don't come under any weight regulations.

FHWA... Questions and Answers about Vehicle Size and Weight

23 CFR 658.5 Definitions

Q.. What are recreational vehicles?
They are generally a vehicular-type unit primarily designed as temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, travel, or seasonal use that either has its own motive power or is mounted on, or towed by, another vehicle.

Back to Top
Q.. Are recreational vehicles subject to Interstate axle weight limits?
Yes.

Back to Top
Q.. Are recreational vehicles required to stop at State scale sites?
Each State may set its own requirements.
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:42 AM   #168
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The political reality is few state enforce their regulations for RVs due to "tourism". Georgia for example has/had a 55mph limit for towing. Other than secondary roads where the speed limit may be 55, I've never heard of a single incident of it being enforced.
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