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Old 12-10-2014, 10:28 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by fvstringpicker View Post
Here's the thing. Most of use have to rely on the advise of others; tax experts, doctors, attorneys, investment advisers, repair/fabrication folks and the like, so there's a natural inclination to seek advise from the people selling the products. Its not the "car salesman" alone leading people down Overload Boulevard. The truck manufactures themselves at the crux of the problem. The marketing folks are putting out numbers to apparently mislead potential customers and even their own employees by advertising and publishing information tow weights and carrying capacity for a single cab 2 WD, no options, model willfully wanting us to believe a well equipped model is capable of those numbers.
For example, I recently checked with the dealer on my truck, purchased a few years back, as to towing weights and payload capability. They punched a vin number on a keyboard for my 2007, GMC 2500hd duramax/allison w/4 WD and got back, 14,200 trailer weight 3,458 w/4wd payload. According the the door tag, I see GVWR 9200. Now take away the actual weight of the truck of ~7000, I end up with 2200 lbs available for payload; a 1200 lb haircut that for all intents and purposes, puts me out of the 5th wheel business. So what do I believe? From a strict "form" perspective, the door tag takes precedence. In substance, the drive train is upgraded to accommodate the 6.2 400 hp v8 or the duramax/allison.
Why doesn't the door tag reflect it? "No uniform standards, until recently, for measuring towing capabilities between models so they kept them at the low end of the spectrum", is the explanation I've heard.
My point exactly. First we have salesmen and manufacturers who lead you astray and then you have "experts" who agree with the salesmen and other un-knowing people by saying that it is fine to be over. It appears you cannot trust some salesmen and you cannot trust some of our fellow RV'ers.

I have no idea what you are trying to demonstrate by the numbers you are quoting. The fact the computer shows a 3458 payload likely means it is for the base truck. Payload is advertised by the manufacturers as the base weight and any options are deducted.

It would make sense if you subtracted the extra weight for the diesel/alison/4wd and other options you have. They would be around 1200 lbs. So in your case the door tag does reflect it.

IMO your door tag does accurately reflect the ability of your truck to carry a load.
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:42 PM   #184
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I looked at both of those links and found out of date info on one and flat out errors on the other.
Being firmly NON commercial does away with a lot of the regulations that are quite real and many people see them and falsely think they apply to everyone.
Have to agree. I posted the links in response to a query by one poster who said " I'm still waiting to see a state by state law that says you can't carry over your vehicles GVW."

I included with my post the statement "Did a quick search on the net and found the above links. If one were to take the time and do an in depth search I am sure there would be much more detailed information."

While the information may indeed be out of date I saw little value in doing the additional research for someone who really seems not to care.
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Old 12-11-2014, 07:37 AM   #185
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Something to consider, with airbags you're adding weight, lots of weight if you opt for a full tilt onboard system with a tank, compressor and all. Since you're already worried about weight adding more, even with airbags, could be a losing return on investment.

With you saying it's riding level and not having ill effects driving then airbags might not be needed. Go and look at your bumpstops, on the helper spring and the actual bumps that hit the axle or spring pack and stop it. If it's not rubbing, then the suspension is fine. Could it be stiffer? Well, sure I guess. Is it necessary? My money is on no.

What do you consider "lots of weight" ? I have a PacBrake air compressor, 2 gallon tank, air bags, air horn and associated air lines and I will bet they don't total 40#.

Op if your truck sits level with your RV attached and fully loaded you will be fine. If not then a heavier duty truck is needed.

But hey you can do as many overloaded 250/2500's do, bag it and add 19.5's!
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Old 12-11-2014, 09:48 AM   #186
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As a follow up to payload capacity here is a quote from a Chevy brochure "1Maximum payload capacity includes weight of driver, passengers, optional equipment and cargo; payload capacities are approximate."

https://www.gm.ca/media/vehicles/cur...rochure_EN.pdf Bottom of page 18
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Old 12-11-2014, 10:43 AM   #187
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I have no idea what you are trying to demonstrate by the numbers you are quoting. The fact the computer shows a 3458 payload likely means it is for the base truck. Payload is advertised by the manufacturers as the base weight and any options are deducted.
I'm not trying to say, "screw the door tag", but with the myriad of tow capabilities thrown at you by the manufactures, and various websites, its hard to determine what the true capabilities are. Its almost like they say, "screw the door tag". The footnote on the 3458 payload produced by the computer, based on the vin number entered didn't say, "for a base truck less the options". In fact it said almost the opposite, "with upgraded engine and drive train."
I'm trying to demonstrate that, notwithstanding the door sticker, its not that much of a stretch to get the false impression "I'm good to go".
From my observation, the bottom line is the manufactures need, and have needed, testing standards that measure specific models, engine/drive train combinations, publish that data, and stop misleading and confusing customers with the "one size fits all" .
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Old 12-11-2014, 01:46 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by fvstringpicker View Post
I'm not trying to say, "screw the door tag", but with the myriad of tow capabilities thrown at you by the manufactures, and various websites, its hard to determine what the true capabilities are. Its almost like they say, "screw the door tag". The footnote on the 3458 payload produced by the computer, based on the vin number entered didn't say, "for a base truck less the options". In fact it said almost the opposite, "with upgraded engine and drive train."
I'm trying to demonstrate that, notwithstanding the door sticker, its not that much of a stretch to get the false impression "I'm good to go".
From my observation, the bottom line is the manufactures need, and have needed, testing standards that measure specific models, engine/drive train combinations, publish that data, and stop misleading and confusing customers with the "one size fits all" .
I agree with what you are saying. How does one make good decisions with the amount of information (with caveats) that they keep pounding us with as comsumers.

I suppose to give them a benefit of the doubt it could be somewhat like electrical ratings of wire. This gauge will carry X amperage, but we know that if we run too long a line it will be insufficient. How can you say the wire will carry X amps without knowing its application? And somewhere in the literature there will be the conditions for the rating of the wire.

As a matter of course I would get the dealership to print the ticket and carry it with you should you ever run afoul of the police for weight issues. I would ensure the ticket has a revised GVWR shown. Or as an option perhaps GM will issue a revised door plate.
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Old 12-11-2014, 02:14 PM   #189
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Then how do you explain an 80.000 trailer being pulled by a truck tractor that weighs significantly less? Wouldn't that tail be wagging that dog? Oh, wait, sometimes trucks do wreck, lose brakes, jackknife, etc.
Better have an over weight permit! 80,000 plus 15,500 for a day cab is 95,500.
Most semi trucks have a GCWR of 80,000 lbs , often marked on the cab as GVW 80,000 lbs. By purchasing an overweight permit, drivers often pull 102,000 lb truck, chassis and container combos into the port where I work daily! Truck weighs 18,500 +/- a few hundred lbs for fuel = 83,500 hooked to 5th wheel! 23,500 lbs OVER the trucks GVW (GCWR to us rv people) - so, can or even should the numbers be exceeded? They are with required permits. I don't want to be fined if found over weight. Yes, they (DOT) can fine you, but are they looking for RVs? Probably not.
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Old 12-11-2014, 02:17 PM   #190
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WHY is this so hard for people to understand? The GVWR for your vehicle is clearly attached to your driver's side door panel. You take the truck to a weigh scale and get the weight....compute any additional things you will need to add ( your wife, dog, hitch, tools etc) and you have you "wet" weight.......subtract this from the GVWR (grade2 math) and you have your Payload.

WHY is this complicated and WHY is this deceptive on the part of the Manufacturer?
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Old 12-11-2014, 03:43 PM   #191
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It's not deceptive. What's deceptive is the ads by all brands saying you can tow or carry x amount of stuff, but when they finally get the truck on the lot it doesn't have that hyped rating. Not everyone reads these forums. There are lots of newbs that don't have a clue.


As far as the door sticker goes, well that's subjective to the state you live in. I live in Oregon and am bound by the trucks GVW. If I travel north to WA then I can up my GVW by paying more for a higher rated GVW thru the DMW. Yes it's cut and dried if you adhere to or need to adhere to the door sticker. But as with all things there are variables. If I lived in WA I could take my 9600lb GVW truck to the DMV and register it for 11,000lbs if I wanted to. And be legal.
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Old 12-11-2014, 03:55 PM   #192
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It's not deceptive. What's deceptive is the ads by all brands saying you can tow or carry x amount of stuff, but when they finally get the truck on the lot it doesn't have that hyped rating. Not everyone reads these forums. There are lots of newbs that don't have a clue.


As far as the door sticker goes, well that's subjective to the state you live in. I live in Oregon and am bound by the trucks GVW. If I travel north to WA then I can up my GVW by paying more for a higher rated GVW thru the DMW. Yes it's cut and dried if you adhere to or need to adhere to the door sticker. But as with all things there are variables. If I lived in WA I could take my 9600lb GVW truck to the DMV and register it for 11,000lbs if I wanted to. And be legal.
Why would you want to pay fees for more capacity than your truck can actually SAFELY handle? While you might be able to argue with a LEO, I don't think an insurance investigator would accept anything but what's on the door sticker. The kind of advice you're offering is why some 'newbs' don't have a clue.
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Old 12-11-2014, 04:25 PM   #193
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As a matter of course I would get the dealership to print the ticket and carry it with you should you ever run afoul of the police for weight issues.
After I withdrew my offer from the dealer on a Keystone 333mrk, I just said the hell with it, I'll keep the pull behind or upgrade it. I've got 23,400 lbs of gross combined weight and that is in the specs. I'm just venting out of frustration.
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Old 12-11-2014, 11:11 PM   #194
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Why would you want to pay fees for more capacity than your truck can actually SAFELY handle? While you might be able to argue with a LEO, I don't think an insurance investigator would accept anything but what's on the door sticker. The kind of advice you're offering is why some 'newbs' don't have a clue.
Who says it won't handle it safely? Once again how do you know what the insurance guy will do? Pure speculation. If registering your truck for a higher GVW in WA is unsafe then why do they let people do it? Each person has to look at their own situation and determine what works best for them.
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Old 12-11-2014, 11:50 PM   #195
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Old 12-11-2014, 11:53 PM   #196
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If those horses are dead Highway, why do their legs move?
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