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Old 11-11-2014, 07:50 PM   #15
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Here's the truck in question. I am going to get the numbers that I need but it looks grim. I appreciate the help good news or bad.

Even if I changed tires and springs that doesn't change the sticker in the door jamb.
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Old 11-12-2014, 12:40 AM   #16
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Your 5er comes from the factory with a 16% pin weight. Brochure says 12,565lbs dry and 1996lbs for pin. If you say it weighs 13,500 dry then apples to apples the pin @16% should be around 2160lbs. Load 1500lbs in it and @16% of 15,000 is 2400lbs.
Ram says the unloaded rear weight is 2960+/-lbs. Add 200lbs for 5th hitch =3160lbs. RAWR of 6500lbs leaves 3340lbs. 3340lbs - 2400lbs = 940lbs for passengers and gear. You'll be under the tow rating and GCVWR. Close on RAWR and over on GVW.

If it were me I would do the trade only if I got a decent deal. If not then I would make sure I had the best tires possible and get some airbags or Timbrens.

But before I did anything I'd head to a scale and see for sure what the pin really is as well as what the loaded 5er weighs. If you've already towed it and it seems fie then it can't be that much overloaded. Get it weighed for peace of mind and also to know if you need to trade or not.
Not all trailers are created equal. Some come with heavy pins. You may get lucky and your pin is stays low after loading it up. Remember as a general rule pins are anywhere from 15-25%. It doesn't have to be 20 or 25% if 15% works.
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Old 11-12-2014, 04:42 AM   #17
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I have the same situation with my F250. My son has a 2014 Ram 3500 SRW and his truck has the same tires mine came stock. For what it's worth I would try the trade but for one ply of spring difference I would keep the truck instead of a large amount in trade.
Make sure the pin weight is not exceeding the rear tire load capacity.
My unit is light pin weight and the F250 is very comfortable towing. I have a friend that traded his Ram 2500 for a 3500 SRW to tow his heavy unit. But the unit has 6k axles with a heavy pin weight. He says that the Ram3500 with 20in tires tows it well.
Most 3/4 tons are derated on paper for some state licensing laws.
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Old 11-12-2014, 08:05 AM   #18
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So I may be alright but I'm right there at the edge
Tires are load range e 3640 carrying cap
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Old 11-12-2014, 08:43 AM   #19
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Read the towing specs from the manufacturer to see what truck configuration is needed to tow your trailer. You are legally responsible for having an adequate tow vehicle, not the RV or Truck salesmen and they certainly wont pay your fine or serve time if you have a wreck and injure someone.
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Old 11-12-2014, 09:39 AM   #20
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Just bought a brand new 5er and a brand new ram 2500. The trailer has a gvw of 16k. The rv dealer, the ram dealer, and some articles stated for a 5er of that weight a 2500 would be sufficient, but now as I do some calculations it seems I may be way over. The truck pulls it fine and looks good when hooked up, but I have a feeling I'm screwed.
You didn't do the math, so yes, you'll be overloaded over the GVWR of that 2500. The "tow rating" says you can tow a much heavier trailer than the "payload capacity" can haul the hitch weight.

Your GVWR is only 10,000 pounds, which is the same as a similar Ford F-250. The F-250 CrewCab is going to gross a minimum of 8,000 pounds when wet and loaded for the road, so the max hitch weight you could have without being overloaded is about 2,000 pounds.

A 16k 5er will gross around 15k when lightly loaded. So with 17% pin weight, you'll be hauling 2,550 pounds of hitch weight. Overloaded by around 550 pounds. If your 5er has the common 20% pin weight, then your hitch weight will be 3,000 pounds, and you'll be overloaded by about 1,000 pounds or more

Before you panic, load the truck with everything and every body that will be in it when towing. Drive to a truck stop that has a CAT scale, fill up with fuel, and weigh the wet and loaded truck. Include the weight of the installed hitch. Don't cheat yourself - include everything that might be in the truck when towing, including tools and jacks and campfire wood. Generator? Gas for the generator? Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded truck from the GVWR of the truck. Once you know the weight of the wet and loaded truck, you can decide if the hitch weight of your 5er will overload the truck too much for your druthers. I wouldn't worry about a few hundred pounds overloaded, but 500 or 1000 pounds is too much for the safety of your family and others that are on the road with you.

Ignore anyone that says to ignore the GVWR of your truck. Ram says you should NEVER exceed the GVWR of your truck.

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That etrailer article is rediculous, and that guy should be fired!
Agreed. That so-called "expert" made the same mistake that many RVers make. He assumes the GCWR and "tow rating" is the limiter, and ignores the GVWR and payload rating of the truck. All "big three" diesel pickups with single rear wheels (SRW) can pull a much heavier trailer than they can haul the hitch weight of that trailer without being overloaded.

My '99.5 F-250 diesel had a tow rating over 13,000 pounds, but it was overloaded over the GVWR of the F-250 with a 5er that grossed only 8,000 pounds. The newer three-quarter-ton diesel pickups with 10,000 GVWR can tow a 5er with GVWR around 10,000 pounds without being overloaded. The so-called one-ton pickups with GVWR of 11,500 can tow a 5er with GVWR around 12,000 pounds. A 5er with GVWR of 16,000 pounds requires a dually to tow it without being overloaded.
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Old 11-12-2014, 10:03 AM   #21
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I'm concerned with the comments that, "If you've already towed it and it seems fine then it can't be that much overloaded.", "The truck pulls it fine and looks good when hooked up."

In commercials a half ton pick up is shown towing a 747 and other oversize loads. That doesn't mean it will be safe when you need to make an emergency maneuver at highway speed or you'll remain stable when a semi blows past you in a 25 mph sidewind. If you are putting your life and your families' lives in that rig you need it to be safe, your concern is admirable.
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Old 11-12-2014, 10:45 AM   #22
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SmokeyWren. I'm not disputing your recommendations for the OP, but I have a question for you. The OP's truck has a FAWR of 6000lbs and a RAWR of 6500lbs, but a GVW of 10,000lbs. What are the RAWR's for if they aren't being used in any equation for towing. The OP has 2500lbs of suspension, tire capacity that's not being used. In fact he has 780lbs of tire capacity in reserve.
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Old 11-12-2014, 10:58 AM   #23
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What I do have going for me is that there's nothing in the truck but myself and the hitch and a 20oz coke, my wife follows in her Yukon and a cargo trailer with all the odds and ends
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:11 AM   #24
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The trailer specs do support that it is on the lighter side for pin weight, but the other thing I don't have much confidence in is that it has two 7500# axles. Granted the truck is carrying 2000+ of the weight, but it seems it should have a third axle.

Obviously I am new to this towing thing and loads, we had a diesel motor home previously so there wasn't much to think about. I just assumed that the people I asked were knowledgable. Unfortunately I have to learn the hard way.
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Old 11-12-2014, 01:06 PM   #25
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The trailer specs do support that it is on the lighter side for pin weight, but the other thing I don't have much confidence in is that it has two 7500# axles. Granted the truck is carrying 2000+ of the weight, but it seems it should have a third axle.

Obviously I am new to this towing thing and loads, we had a diesel motor home previously so there wasn't much to think about. I just assumed that the people I asked were knowledgable. Unfortunately I have to learn the hard way.

7500x2=15,000.
@13,500 (estimated load) 1500lbs left.
-2400lbs for pin+1500lbs=3900lbs.
15,000-3900lbs=11,100lbs on the axles. Even at max weight of 15,500 and pin of 2480lbs(16%) he's under the 15,000lb axle rating by 2000lbs.
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Old 11-12-2014, 01:27 PM   #26
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SmokeyWren. I'm not disputing your recommendations for the OP, but I have a question for you. The OP's truck has a FAWR of 6000lbs and a RAWR of 6500lbs, but a GVW of 10,000lbs. What are the RAWR's for if they aren't being used in any equation for towing. The OP has 2500lbs of suspension, tire capacity that's not being used. In fact he has 780lbs of tire capacity in reserve.
I am not a chassis engineer. All I can go by is the Ram numbers. And Ram says he should NEVER exceed any of the Ram weight limits, including GCWR,GAWR, and GVWR.

GVWR is the limiter on his Ram, so that is the first weight limit he would encounter when towing. It doesn't matter how much excess weight capacity he has for other weight ratings, his GVWR is 10,000 pounds. And Ram says he should never exceed 10,000 pounds on his two truck axles. The CAT scale will verify if he is following he Ram rules.

You are not allowed to pick out some of the Ram weight limits and ignore others. Unless you have a PE in chassis engineering, you are not qualified to decide if the Ram weight limits are accurate. So go by what Ram says.
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Old 11-12-2014, 02:20 PM   #27
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I am not a chassis engineer. All I can go by is the Ram numbers. And Ram says he should NEVER exceed any of the Ram weight limits, including GCWR,GAWR, and GVWR.

GVWR is the limiter on his Ram, so that is the first weight limit he would encounter when towing. It doesn't matter how much excess weight capacity he has for other weight ratings, his GVWR is 10,000 pounds. And Ram says he should never exceed 10,000 pounds on his two truck axles. The CAT scale will verify if he is following he Ram rules.

You are not allowed to pick out some of the Ram weight limits and ignore others. Unless you have a PE in chassis engineering, you are not qualified to decide if the Ram weight limits are accurate. So go by what Ram says.
Understandable. So my question is why are RAWR or FAWR even mentioned on weight tables? I could see the FAWR if someone wanted to attach a snowplow. But why do they even list RAWR when it will never be achieved because of GVW?

Interesting of note, is that in the Ford towing guides it states, Do net exceed the trucks GVWR or GAWR. Why the two options when the GAWR can't ever be reached before the GVWR is reached?

No one has ever explained this.
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Old 11-12-2014, 03:05 PM   #28
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I could only assume that the axle weight ratings are higher because the weight is not always evenly distributed and is dynamic, ie during braking and turning.
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