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Old 11-12-2014, 04:14 PM   #29
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I weighed the truck as I would travel, front 4980, rear 3280, leaving 1740 remaining for the pin. If the trailer is loaded to the max gvwr I will be 740 over the trucks gvwr. I know this isn't the right way of looking at it but the rear axle still has 750ish to spare, so I won't ruin the truck, but I'm not legal on paper. I guess the next step is to get the combination on the scale and see what's what. I appreciate all the help, and feeling depressed.
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Old 11-12-2014, 04:46 PM   #30
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Looks like if I get the exact same truck in a 3500srw I will be within all weights but not by much. Trading is going to cost me nearly 10 grand and that's not an option right now. I only move the trailer 4 or 5 times a year so I hate to say it but I might just have to cross my fingers I don't get in trouble. I'm confident the truck can do it safely, nothing in this world is rated for ultimate breaking strength there is always a design factor/safety factor. I may be able to do something in the spring as far as an upgrade.
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Old 11-12-2014, 05:06 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Erlingiii View Post
I weighed the truck as I would travel, front 4980, rear 3280, leaving 1740 remaining for the pin. If the trailer is loaded to the max gvwr I will be 740 over the trucks gvwr. I know this isn't the right way of looking at it but the rear axle still has 750ish to spare, so I won't ruin the truck, but I'm not legal on paper. I guess the next step is to get the combination on the scale and see what's what. I appreciate all the help, and feeling depressed.
GVWR takes into account the entire frame, suspension, drive train and braking system. While you may not be over on the rear axle the ability of the truck to pull and correctly handle the amount of weight is the issue.

You will not always be pulling down hill so the transmission will be getting a heavier workout than certified for. You will not be always braking when going uphill so the brakes will be working harder. (dont count on the trailer brakes as they can work erratically at times).

There may be some ways to keep the trailer weight down to reduce the pin weight. If the water tanks are ahead of the axle leave them empty. Move weight from the front of the trailer to the back the best you can.

Good luck until you can make the move to a different TV. I would drive cautiously, below the speed limit and leave lots of room for quick stops should you encounter any situations.
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Old 11-12-2014, 06:09 PM   #32
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more limiting factors that are some times over looked are

if there is a crash why going down / up a hill on any type of grade and you have to stop as the road is backed up now

motor runs hot on a hill tire blows out on a hill and you have to pull over

well the park pal in the trans hold you back
and if it can well the only tired lock hold that load back as well with out sliding down the hill

alot of the numbers are more set to not stopping the load its keeping it stopped
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Old 11-12-2014, 06:13 PM   #33
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You will be OK as long as the axle and tire capacity is not exsided. Your truck is the same as any 3500 if your tires are rated to what you stated.
My province registered my truck by the axle capacity while I am certified to pull any trailer as long as the axle/tire capacities are not exsided. Been doing it for 20 years with 4 trucks without any any incidence. When I brake in an emergency I worry more about others hitting me from behind then me hitting someone. Because I know I drive defensively, but what is behind me surely is behound my control.
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:09 PM   #34
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WOW! Three pages now full of people justifying why they tow overloaded is OK. Yet, there is not one of them who has ever had to sign on the dotted line to the Federal Government that the truck is safe up to the number on the door post. If they had they would quit arguing and get the right tool for the job. Bottom line, can the OP tow that 16K GVWR fiver? Sure! Will he be overloaded? Yes guaranteed? Can he alter his brand new truck to do the job? Sure! But he will never be able to alter the GVWR sticker on the drivers door. So, by altering his truck or towing overloaded will he void the warranty? Only time will tell
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:49 PM   #35
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I could see the FAWR if someone wanted to attach a snowplow. But why do they even list RAWR when it will never be achieved because of GVW?
Continue with the logic of the snowplow. The snowplow will load a lot more of the available payload on the front axle. But remove the snowplow, then go to Home Depot and load the back-end of the bed with enough cement or sand or some such that you reach the rGAWR. Hopefully you are still under the max GVWR, but way under the front GAWR.

So you can haul a load that maximizes the load on the front axle, or on the rear axle, but not both at the same time.

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Interesting of note, is that in the Ford towing guides it states, Do net exceed the trucks GVWR or GAWR. Why the two options when the GAWR can't ever be reached before the GVWR is reached?
Ram and GM have the same footnotes.

Why? Because you are thinking only in terms of towing a tandem-axle trailer. Forget the trailer and go to Home Depot and in the pickup bed haul a load of cement to the construction site. Load the cement on the tailgate so it's easy to unload. And oh yeah, on the way to the work site, the boss said for you to stop and fill up with go juice then weigh the wet and loaded pickup on the CAT scale.

Plus, not all pickups are created equal. My F-250 couldn't even get close to the rear GAWR before it bumped into the GVWR. But my F-150 runs out of GVWR at about the same TT weight as it runs out of rGAWR. And from what I hear, the GM 2500 pickups are weak when it comes to rGAWR. Some folks on IRV2 with GM 2500s say they run out of rGAWR before they reach the GVWR.
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Old 11-12-2014, 08:00 PM   #36
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I am not justifying towing over, I deserve a little shame. In my defense, and in my fault, I trusted who I thought to be experts to point me in the right direction. I never once said I want a 3/4 ton truck, I said I want that trailer, what do I need to pull it? If I was told I needed a 650 that's what I would have bought, but I was told the 2500 would do it just fine by three unrelated sources. Once I signed the paperwork, that was it, I owned that truck. I spent $110,00 last week, and it makes me sick to my stomach knowing that I made a very expensive mistake, and I'm not in a position to correct it. I drove my rig 500 miles through bad traffic in dc and the mountains in virginia before I knew I was over, and I never felt on the edge. The biggest difference in the truck I have an the truck I need is a sticker, and I hear ya, that's a big difference, but what options do I realy have? I hope others will read this thread and not make the same mistake, I know there are other threads that are nearly identical, and I wish I took the time and investigated them. I also believe that the 1500lb difference in the 3500 and the 2500 is not going to make a life or death difference. A one ton loaded to its limit or a three quarter loaded over by 8%, both trucks will be sketchy trying to make an emergency stop with failed trailer brakes. Not only that but a three quarter ton is 10k for tax reasons and commercial registration most of the equipment overlaps with a one ton. It's more economical for the manufacturer to use the same parts than it is to design one truck for 10k and another for 12k. I'm not saying that there aren't differences but were talking 8% on the gvw, I'm not using a gas 1500 who's headlights are shining in the tree tops, it's a heavy duty 3/4 diesel that still got 12mpg. This post may sound like I'm looking for justification but realize I'm not, I completely respect all comments, suggestion, and help I've received to determine that I did make a mistake. And I will upgrade cause that's the right thing to do, I just can't do it right now. Thanks again, I mean that.
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Old 11-12-2014, 08:33 PM   #37
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... but what options do I realy have?
If you cannot trade for enough truck to tow that trailer without exceeding any of the Ram weight limits, then there are a few things you can do.

1] Hide the symptoms of being overloaded by installing RideRite air bags in the rear suspension of the Ram. Pump up the air bags so the headlights don't blind oncoming drivers at night. Notice the stance of the truck with the wet and loaded trailer tied on. If the rear end of the truck sags, then put some more air in the bags.

2] Get the weight out of the truck and trailer. Haul nothing in the bed of the truck heavier than aluminum camping chairs. If you have a toolbox, then you must bring it with you, but haul it behind the rear axle of the trailer and not in the pickup. Be certain the grey and black water tanks are empty. Haul only enough fresh water to flush the pottie while on the road.

The trailer seems to gain weight as time goes by. So pay attention to what you are hauling in the trailer. Pay particular attention to the weight in the front "basement" storage area. Move anything that weighs anything at all to behind the trailer axles. Leave the cast iron cookware at home. Haul only light-weight plastic or paper dishes and cups and glasses. Don't stock up on food and drinks until you get close to the RV parking space. Then use it all up before you head back to the ranch.

In other words, realize you're overloaded, and do whatever it takes to minimize how much overloaded you are. Weigh the rig on a CAT scale in the middle of every trip and see how much overloaded you are.

Good luck.
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Old 11-13-2014, 05:24 AM   #38
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I'm not saying that there aren't differences but were talking 8% on the gvw, I'm not using a gas 1500 who's headlights are shining in the tree tops, it's a heavy duty 3/4 diesel that still got 12mpg.
This is the most reasonable argument I've heard in this thread.

If you research issues related to towing safety on any internet forum, you find the same old arguments. Right now someone read my comment above and wants to say "ok smarty pants... lets see how reasonable the feds are when they pull you over, check your tags, and make you do the macarena in front of your wife and children before tossing you in a dark prison cell for the rest of your life." They will then go on to quote statistic after statistic upon fact upon figure regarding how the all knowing and all powerful federal government always knows best... and how if you disregard the manufacturers recommendations by more than 12 ounces you are bringing certain death and destruction upon yourself and anyone who might be on the road with you.

Then, on the other side, you will have someone else saying "yeah man... stick it the man... bunch of commies anyhow... I tow 20k with my 4 cylinder s-10 at 70mph and everything is hunky-dorey cause I'm the safest driver out there and I would never do anything stupid. I once knew a guy who pulled a fifth wheel with a neon... "

Blah blah blah... etc etc etc.

I'm not saying that I condone either of those points of view... they are basically opposite sides of the same coin... someone speaking to hear themselves speak. I prefer the more reasonable arguments... which i believe yours is.

Regarding safety... and this is just my opinion... you are going to be fine, your truck will be fine, and you will not be a safety hazard to anyone else, nor will you be doing swan dives off the end of a switchback on a regular basis... Like you said... your within 8%. If you think that everyone's driving skills are within 8% then yous is crazy. I'd take riding in an 8% overloaded truck with either of the two satire characters above providing they're a decent driver - over riding in a foam padded crash test vehicle with an idiot who can't drive.

Maybe there are places now where the DOT pulls over campers and makes them weigh in... probably in california or new york... (commies anyways... ) but for the most part, the DOT is looking to make $$ by handing out tickets to commercial entities. Sure, it all started out in the name of safety, but after the bureaucracy was established they found out it takes revenue flow so that the nice DOT officer can keep his job. But I digress...

I will say that some DOT officers are not at all very reasonable... but most are. As a non-commercial rig, you will probably never have to deal with any of this. If you pull into a weight station, they will give you a dirty look like "what are YOU doing here you idiot" and wave you thru. They don't care about you. If they do stop you and question your tow capacity, but see you have made provision for the extra 8%, they'll say be careful and wave you thru.

The sticker on the door has information that is useful to you about your weight. The numbers therein were calculated using the stock configuration of the truck, including axles, springs, tires, tranny, etc. You can indeed change those things and increase the capacity of your truck. No, it won't be reflected on the door jam, but for goodness sake they sell airbags and tires for a reason, and they do have an effect. You don't need huge gains... you probably don't need any... but if you wanted to gain some capacity for peace of mind, then some F load range tires and a set of air bags would probably more than suffice. Your truck probably has the same brakes as a 1-ton?

Will 8% over be a warranty issue? I dunno... but I doubt it.

Will 8% over be an insurance liability issue if you crash? Maybe... something to consider.

And that my friends is my $.02. Let the flaming remarks commence...

-cheers
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Old 11-13-2014, 09:05 AM   #39
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Well said piker well said....so I may have gotten the gist of the thread but what it the formula to figure out what you can actually tow...stock TV configuration
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Old 11-13-2014, 09:35 AM   #40
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


And there you have it. A dose of reality for the weight police purists.

I've seen crashes where a 1500 was pulling a 5er and where a 4500 was pulling a 25' TT. I personally witnessed a 3500 that wasn't able to stop a 30' 5er in time and drove over the back of a car stopped in traffic.

I'm less concerned about the weight to overweight ratio than I am the abilities of the driver. They're easy to drive, it's when it goes wrong that the mettle is tested.

The sticker on the door falls way short when compared to the experience and ability of the one holding the wheel. I've known truck drivers that could get away with pulling a fifth wheel with a Neon, and seen the results of a new trailer owner jack knifing a big truck small trailer combo.

Sadly there's not a lot in the way of driver training for this segment. Threadjack over.
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Old 11-13-2014, 10:13 AM   #41
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Piker nailed it.
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Old 11-13-2014, 10:16 AM   #42
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Hellwig or ride rite? Compressor now? Or add it later?
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