Jeep vs Toyota

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by Glen 3

However it's always been my impression that Chrysler Dodge Jeep vehicles were at the bottom of the the reliability charts.

True. Confirmed by Consumer Reports annual reliability ratigs. In the December 2018 issue
Overall reliability of 3-year old midsized SUVs:
Toyota 4Runner V6 = much better than average
Jeep Grand Cherokee V6 = much worse than average

Of course that's based on averages. You can always find exceptions to the average such as TonyDi's experience with his GCs.

Or my experience with my 1999.5 F-250. Rated simply awful by Consumer Reports, but mine was dead-rock reliable during 10 years and over 200,000 miles of ownership with over 100,000 miles of towing a 9k 5er.

But I have a career worth of experience in applying math to software development projects, so I know that TonyDi and I were simply lucky. Do you feel lucky today? If you're a gambler and want to gamble on luck, then buy the Jeep. But if you'd rather not gamble, then buy the Toy.

[Shutterbug57]

I had a 2012 Grand Cherokee Altitude Edition 6 cyl AWD tranny for the last 7 years. It has been a great vehicle. Reliable and very cost effective to keep on the road. I put 150K miles on it and passed it to my daughter. I have no doubt it will go another 100-150k miles. I moved up to an Expedition Max last month as we needed more seats.

[sirtate]

Originally Posted by SmokeyWren

True. Confirmed by Consumer Reports annual reliability ratigs. In the December 2018 issue

Overall reliability of 3-year old midsized SUVs:

Toyota 4Runner V6 = much better than average

Jeep Grand Cherokee V6 = much worse than average



Of course that's based on averages. You can always find exceptions to the average such as TonyDi's experience with his GCs.



Or my experience with my 1999.5 F-250. Rated simply awful by Consumer Reports, but mine was dead-rock reliable during 10 years and over 200,000 miles of ownership with over 100,000 miles of towing a 9k 5er.



But I have a career worth of experience in applying math to software development projects, so I know that TonyDi and I were simply lucky. Do you feel lucky today? If you're a gambler and want to gamble on luck, then buy the Jeep. But if you'd rather not gamble, then buy the Toy.

I find it interesting that transmissions made in the same factory are rated less reliable in FCA products than when they are in Honda's...(or BMWs or MBs or Hyundais)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_9HP_transmission

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission

Perhaps the polling that CR does may be biased?

[Mtn. Lion]

Originally Posted by sirtate

I find it interesting that transmissions made in the same factory are rated less reliable in FCA products than when they are in Honda's...(or BMWs or MBs or Hyundais)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_9HP_transmission

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission

Perhaps the polling that CR does may be biased?

Using a poll to provide reliability data is questionable.

But the transmission reliability issue w/in the same factory could be from using different materials, components, design, etc and not so much workmanship at the assembly level.

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by diginomad

But the transmission reliability issue w/in the same factory could be from using different materials, components, design, etc and not so much workmanship at the assembly level.

Different tuning software (i.e., computer program that controls the tranny), different engine HP and torque curves, different tranny cooling hardware and software.

[tuffr2]

One time I bought a car against what CR said. CR had solid black (meaning a lot of trouble) for transmission. Solid Black for brakes too.

The 1st thing I did was put on a transmission cooler. I had to use Rislone also but 165,000 miles later I traded that car in. Oh, this V8 powered car towed an overweight boat with surge brakes 25,000 miles.

Brakes - yep CR was right. They needed triple black for the brakes. I keep a spare set of good front rotors that I could change in 45 minutes.

CR is pretty accurate when it comes to their information. Better than most.

[jjackrash]

Originally Posted by Glen 3

It's been our plan to replace our ageing Explorer with a Toyota 4Runner because the 4Runner has a 4 litre engine and comes standard with a hitch. It also has a frame.

I would try and tow with the Toyota before you buy it and see if it passes the white knuckle test. I am not sure what changed, but at some point the 4Runners stopped passing my white-knuckle sensor. I considered the older ones as good tow vehicles within capacity. But I hated the way the last few newer ones I've been in have towed even well within tow capacity. YMMV.

[captrcurtis]

I am not sure what GM vehicles you are looking at but any of the 2019 Tahoe's or Yukons are rated even with a 3.08 axle ratio (definitely not for towing) has a 6300 rating with the 3.42 it has 8300 all with the 5.3. these are down slightly from the 2017 and earlier models which were 6600 & 8600 respectively.

[tuffr2]

The longer the wheelbase the more stable the tow vehicle will be.

Buy an SUV with a long(ish) wheelbase vs one with a short(ish) wheelbase.

[hardy1000]

Originally Posted by Mac99

I have owned 5 Jeeps, loved every one of them.
Both Cherokee and Grand Cherokee....

I have owned 2 Jeeps and purchased my 2009 4 door JK Rubicon new it now 75k miles. I can say they have been reliable and just down right fun. Love them.

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by Glen 3

We just bought a new travel trailer to replace our old tent trailer. The new trailer is small by hard side standards with a bumper to hitch length of 19 ft and a dry weight of 3,000 lbs. It's been our plan to replace our ageing Explorer with a Toyota 4Runner because the 4Runner has a 4 litre engine and comes standard with a hitch. It also has a frame. Recently we learned that the Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 3.6 litre engine is rated even higher at 6,200 lbs. That's quite a difference in towing capacity. Also being an American vehicle it is much cheaper than the Toyota. We took one for a test drive today. It was quite nice. However it's always been my impression that Chrysler Dodge Jeep vehicles were at the bottom of the the reliability charts. I'd like to hear from people who have used either of these vehicles and especially if you tow with them. Have they met your expectations? Can the V6 Jeep really handle serious trailer loads? Is the 4Runner worth the extra money. Any and all informed opionions are appreciated. We don't want a pick-up.

I am one of those that repair vehicles for a living. I also have been towing for a long time. I can give you my opinion but I know I'll get a lot of hate mail for it.

FCA (Fiat/Chrysler of America) is bottom of the barrel quality wise. While the Grand Cherokee will easily have the power for your rig I would recommend the 4 Runner hands down. The GC will squat easily. It WILL be less reliable. Suspension parts will be so-so for durability. Electronic crap is what will go wrong 1st. The 8 speed has been plaqued with issues. One customer had his return 4 times for warranty and recall issues in the first 6 months/5000 km. It always shifted erratically, as bad as the 2001-2004 Caravan 4 speeds. They "forgot" to program in safety factors so people could shut the engine off and leave the vehicle in neutral, DOH!

Radios, NAV and other issues constantly plaque FCA products. TIPM (totally integrated power modules), a fancy name for the electronic fuseboxes control 98% of the car and they fail OFTEN! It's a 1000$ repair most times. They fail suddenly and without warning.

The 4 Runner will likely have a bit less power on paper. It might be as powerful in reality with more realistic torque curves, I haven't checked. I think wheelbase should be longer in the Toyota, that's a plus for hauling. Resale value will always be better on the Toyota. It may have less gadgets than the FCA but at least they tend to work well for a long time.

Just my professional opinion, let the hate mail begin.

[tuffr2]

Everyone knows Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth where the bottom for reliability. Everyone knows Fiat had even worse reliability.

So Fiat buys Chrysler, what do you expect? Magic reliability???

But even I have to give them credit for building some nice looking vehicles. Even though I know about the reliability gamble I almost bought a Ram 2500. So I can see the attraction to their products.

[Mtn. Lion]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

One time I bought a car against what CR said. CR had solid black (meaning a lot of trouble) for transmission. Solid Black for brakes too.

The 1st thing I did was put on a transmission cooler. I had to use Rislone also but 165,000 miles later I traded that car in. Oh, this V8 powered car towed an overweight boat with surge brakes 25,000 miles.

Brakes - yep CR was right. They needed triple black for the brakes. I keep a spare set of good front rotors that I could change in 45 minutes.

CR is pretty accurate when it comes to their information. Better than most.

When CR does the testing, absolutely. They have a methodical and scientific approach to testing. But in recent years they started collecting user submitted data and use that for some reliability ratings.

[nytmare]

My Mini-Lite is roughly 4,300lbs dry and 5,100lbs loaded for a trip. I tow it with my '14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit with ease. The Jeep's equipped with a Hemi, 8 speed transmission, air-bag suspension, and a handful of other bells and whistles. I live on the East Coast, but have taken it up and down the Western Virginia and Tennessee mountains with no problem. They may not be the Tetons, but there's a few up and down hills (particularly on the back roads) that can get pretty steep. The Jeep's never balked at any of it. BTW, I get amount 10 mpg while towing. Which is fine with me since a bathroom break is needed at about that point anyway.

Plus... since everyone's getting down Jeep products, I must be one of the lucky ones as I've not had a single problem with our's either mechanically or electronically. I've probably jinxed myself now. Anyway, a little routine maintenance and keeping things clean under the hood goes a long way. Based on my experience, I'd buy another Jeep with no hesitation.

Best of luck on your next purchase.