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Old 08-22-2019, 08:07 AM   #15
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I think the "Never change your trannsmission fluid" advice comes from this...

1) Someone has an older vehicle that has never had the fluid changed.
2) Eventually, they start to detect a problem so they change the fluid.
3) The tranny goes out soon afterwards so they blame it on the fluid change... never mind that it was on it's way out already.
4) An urban legend is born.
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:07 AM   #16
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Smokey - so, what are you thinking? How often are you thinking you would change your tranny fluid in your brand new truck?
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Old 08-23-2019, 06:37 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by 77Travco View Post
I think the "Never change your trannsmission fluid" advice comes from this...

1) Someone has an older vehicle that has never had the fluid changed.
2) Eventually, they start to detect a problem so they change the fluid.
3) The tranny goes out soon afterwards so they blame it on the fluid change... never mind that it was on it's way out already.
4) An urban legend is born.
How do you explain the newer vehicles that have been regularly serviced, but go out? Its not the fluid, its how they are used most of the time. We have guys that insist on changing the fluid regularly, yet have their transmission go out in less than 100,000 miles. I don't have one go out very often, and usually get 200,000 or more out of them. The truck I had before this one has over 300,000 on it and still the original transmission, never changed the tranny fluid. The one I have now went out at 200,000. The transmission tech said the oil still looked good ( it had never been changed) but was probably the torque converter. They could put a torque converter in it with no warranty, or change the whole transmission with a 100,000 mile warranty. A lot of it is people burning the fluid, thinking because they have a big turbo diesel, they can drive it like a Mack truck and run 75-80 mph down the road with a big heavy trailer thats loaded to the max.
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Old 08-23-2019, 10:07 PM   #18
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How do you explain the newer vehicles that have been regularly serviced, but go out? Its not the fluid, its how they are used most of the time. We have guys that insist on changing the fluid regularly, yet have their transmission go out in less than 100,000 miles. I don't have one go out very often, and usually get 200,000 or more out of them. The truck I had before this one has over 300,000 on it and still the original transmission, never changed the tranny fluid. The one I have now went out at 200,000. The transmission tech said the oil still looked good ( it had never been changed) but was probably the torque converter. They could put a torque converter in it with no warranty, or change the whole transmission with a 100,000 mile warranty. A lot of it is people burning the fluid, thinking because they have a big turbo diesel, they can drive it like a Mack truck and run 75-80 mph down the road with a big heavy trailer thats loaded to the max.
I blame most of it on stupidity. I've seen repeat fails when a smaller truck like a V6 Dodge Dalota is trying to haul a 2 or 4 horse loaded trailer, or a 30 foot, 10 000 lb rig at 120 kph. Some people feel the need to be 1st up the hill, transmission be damned!

Very rare for modern trannies to go out soon anymore unless abused or ill-maintained. I have not had any of my regular customers needing a trans in over 15 years as long as they performed maintenance when I suggested it. I am NOT one of those "flush all fluids every time" shops either. I have no flush machines. Investing 125-250$ or so every 120 000km for a professional trans service and filter replacement is a LOT cheaper than a 4 to 10k trans job.
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Old 08-25-2019, 08:38 AM   #19
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Allison on the other hand in my medium duty. Says only change spin on filter at suggested intervals. and drop the fluid via the drain plug. the filter in pan only gets changed on a complete rebuild. This a 1000 series allison 6 speed. Granted this is only if you use the TF295 rated fluid at $60 a gallon. Which i do. and on the dipstick its actually looks orange. always has. Automatic transmission no matter who makes it. They hate heat. Keep it cool keep it happy.
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:05 AM   #20
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Allison on the other hand in my medium duty. Says only change spin on filter at suggested intervals. and drop the fluid via the drain plug. the filter in pan only gets changed on a complete rebuild. This a 1000 series allison 6 speed. Granted this is only if you use the TF295 rated fluid at $60 a gallon. Which i do. and on the dipstick its actually looks orange. always has. Automatic transmission no matter who makes it. They hate heat. Keep it cool keep it happy.
That is a fine procedure AFAIC. The spin on filter captures a lot, the in pan filter is more of a screen than fine filter. It may have filter media but there's no way it can filter as much as a good pleated spin on filter. Dropping the fluid via the plug every 100 000 km or so (62 000 miles) will result in a 50 to 65% fluid exchange each time.

If one wants a better "flush" drop it, cap it, add a few liters of proper fluid, start'er up 30 seconds, drop the "new" fluid again then do a proper fillup.

Your Allison will likely last hundreds of thousands of km this way.
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Old 08-26-2019, 06:09 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by hillbilly3 View Post
1)How do you explain the newer vehicles that have been regularly serviced, but go out?
2) We have guys that insist on changing the fluid regularly, yet have their transmission go out in less than 100,000 miles. I don't have one go out very often, and usually get 200,000 or more out of them.
3) The transmission tech said the oil still looked good
4)They could put a torque converter in it with no warranty, or change the whole transmission with a 100,000 mile warranty.
1) I'm not explaining anything, I'm just theorizing on how rumors get started.
2) Possibly because one tranny was abused and the other was not?
3) C'mon, we all know what tranny fluid looks like 15 minutes into its service life.
4) What shop offers a 100K mile warranty? I need to save their number!
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Old 08-26-2019, 07:08 AM   #22
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Smokey - so, what are you thinking? How often are you thinking you would change your tranny fluid in your brand new truck?
Ford has a good helper for maintaining the drivetrain on a pickup. The "maintenance required" idiot light on the dash tells you when maintenance needs done. And with codes to tell you which maintenance it's talking about. I'll just go by that. The computer program uses data from numerous sensors on how hard you use the drivetrain, so it knows that most of my usage is towing on the open highway. If Ford's logic is correct that my tranny won't need service for 150,000 miles, then I'll report back at 150,000 miles.

Heat is the tranny killer, so if I never allow the tranny to overheat, then it should last as long as the Ford logic states. My Lariat includes a digital tranny temp gauge, so it's easy to watch the tranny temp and not allow more than 225°.
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Old 08-27-2019, 08:14 AM   #23
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That sounds like a good plan to me.

Any speeding tickets yet in that zoom zoom truck?
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Old 08-27-2019, 09:41 AM   #24
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Ford has a good helper for maintaining the drivetrain on a pickup. The "maintenance required" idiot light on the dash tells you when maintenance needs done. And with codes to tell you which maintenance it's talking about. I'll just go by that. The computer program uses data from numerous sensors on how hard you use the drivetrain, so it knows that most of my usage is towing on the open highway. If Ford's logic is correct that my tranny won't need service for 150,000 miles, then I'll report back at 150,000 miles.

Heat is the tranny killer, so if I never allow the tranny to overheat, then it should last as long as the Ford logic states. My Lariat includes a digital tranny temp gauge, so it's easy to watch the tranny temp and not allow more than 225°.
That idiot light is there to make owners look like idiots. When it's on it,S too late.

AFAIK there will be no onboard messages telling you you need transmission service. Ford data shows fluid and filter replacement at 150 000 miles, which I deem too much for regular towing.

You will get the oil service (and/or maintenance) warning but that's it.

Coupla hundred bucks for the proper fluid and filter is a lot cheaper than a a 7000$ tranny. I'd recommend 70 000 to 80 000 miles tops for replacement if used for any towing.
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Old 08-27-2019, 09:59 AM   #25
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It’s my humble opinion the “fluid for life” movement came along when the engineers ability to have fluid last on average beyond the warranty period coincided with the marketing departments’ realization that new cars are lasting longer and longer and that’s not good for sales!

For people who buy new like me, less maintenance is a good thing. I’m not so sure about the second owner’s experience.
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Old 08-27-2019, 12:14 PM   #26
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It’s my humble opinion the “fluid for life” movement came along when the engineers ability to have fluid last on average beyond the warranty period coincided with the marketing departments’ realization that new cars are lasting longer and longer and that’s not good for sales!

For people who buy new like me, less maintenance is a good thing. I’m not so sure about the second owner’s experience.
EXACTLY! This is well known among techs and dealer personnel. Many OEMs state the "lifetime" of a vehicle at 160 000km. If I only got that mileage out of a modern vehicle before it fell to pieces I'd be pissed.
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Old 08-27-2019, 05:41 PM   #27
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I don't have a question. I was simply passing on the info in the Blackstone Labs report.
Smokey, thanks for the post and the link to Blackstone Labs. I assume everyone went to the link but I doubt it. In the good old days you needed to change all the fluids on a frequent basis. I still have the owners manual for my 56 Ford. The schedule almost makes you laugh. Machining and quality have improved in all areas. Transmissions that have not had regular fluid changes as they should have are actually at risk if changed, because all the gunk will circulate and plug up your control passages. I tend to respect what Blackstone says. I saw that report also and it covered several topics. Follow the manufacturers schedule. Do you think they would recommend a schedule that would increase their warranty costs? The correct answer is, NO. If you think you have more info than the engineers then I’m sure the companies would gladly hire you to improve their products. Give them a call with your suggestions. Who knows it may be the start of a new career in fluid dynamics.
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Old 08-27-2019, 06:11 PM   #28
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The computer program uses data from numerous sensors on how hard you use the drivetrain, so it knows that most of my usage is towing on the open highway. If Ford's logic is correct that my tranny won't need service for 150,000 miles, then I'll report back at 150,000 miles.
I don't know if the computer can determine if you are using your vehicle under extreme/severe conditions. Check the owners manual. I'm sure under extreme conditions they recommend ATF change more often than 150k.

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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
Heat is the tranny killer, so if I never allow the tranny to overheat, then it should last as long as the Ford logic states. My Lariat includes a digital tranny temp gauge, so it's easy to watch the tranny temp and not allow more than 225°.
I designed automatic transmission back in the 80s so things have changed a lot since then. Even then 250° was not considered harmful. Not good, not harmful.

Most (all?) modern ATF is either synthetic or semi-synthetic. They can probably handle temp close to 300° before breaking down. I am not saying this is a good idea, but if your ATF hit 275° going up a long grade, I would not panic.
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