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View Poll Results: Replace or not?
Do it! 15 37.50%
Not really necessary. 25 62.50%
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:03 PM   #29
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Sorry for bringing it up, but I know what works for me and my friends. LT(Long Term), or ST(Short Term);your choice. Just trying to save some people the grief and cost of the damage an inferior tire can cause.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:17 PM   #30
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Thanks for the sage advice. The only better thing would be if you really knew that were true in all cases, or that you knew that you are indisputably correct and that the information provided by every RV and trailer manufacturer is dead wrong, etc., which... you don't. But I accept your apology.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:02 PM   #31
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I have never seen a ST tire that was any good. I once bought 5 Goodyear Marathons and replaced them all with less than 2000 miles on them and less than 2 years old. One blew on the Benecia Bridge. Another blew about a week later. The remaining 2 were had sidewal bulges, bubbles, and the beginnings of tread separation.

Pretty much the same thing with TowMax. A TowMax stranded me in the desert for 6 hours. It was about 5 years old.

LT tires are heavier, stronger, made better, and last longer. My preference for a trailer/fifth wheel is Michelin Ribs. Not cheap. but any NON CHINESE LT tire that does not have an aggressive tread pattern will serve you well.

I would never ever in a million years put a Chinese tire on anything bigger than a wheelbarrow. Tire shops will try real hard to sell them to you because they have a higher margin on them.

Get TPMS regardless of what tires you get. I prefer the ones with external sensor/transmitters but they require metal valve stems. Get metal valve stems too!
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:15 PM   #32
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They have a higher mark-up and rely on volume sales, which they get by pushing and selling junk ST tires.

smiller, I'm going by experience and my friends experience. Do you by chance sell ST tires? And... I'm not going to apologize for ST tires.

Thanks Muddy, but I wouldn't put an ST tire on my wheelbarrow, even if a brand new one was given to me.

Let's all settle down. Like I said, I'm going by experience, not hear-say or what an RV manufacturer says. A manufacturer doesn't drive these toys like we do. I'd like to hear from one of those guys that deliver 5ers with ST tire on them and see what he thinks.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:40 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunner View Post
Like I said, I'm going by experience, not hear-say or what an RV manufacturer says.
Lol, hearsay is exactly what most of the 'any LT is better than any ST' stuff is based on. And sure, why would one credit an RV or tire manufacturer as knowing anything at all about their products?

With regard to Towmax and Marathons, ya, that's why I threw a set of Towmax away and why I didn't use Marathons to replace them. It is likely true that a good LT tire may be better than a China-bomb ST even if the LT isn't intended for trailer use, but it seems equally likely that a well-built ST (which is designed for trailer use) would be a better choice over 'any' LT, especially when the tire manufacturer itself recommends against using it in trailer applications (as most do.) Is the Maxxis a well-built ST? It seems to be in most people's experience.

The utter lack of understanding of the difference between factual and anecdotal evidence is a hallmark of Internet wisdom so what can I say, other than to try to point out that there is plenty of evidence on both sides and an open mind might be the most appropriate tool here. With regard to 'experience', note that the 'not really necessary' response is running more than 2:1 against the need to replace the tires, even the Towmax, and I doubt people would respond that way if their experience was otherwise. So is 'experience' the answer, or only your experience?

I don't have the answer so maybe you're right, or is it just possible you are basing your certain knowledge on a less than adequate sample size and without consistent enough standards to really make a definite conclusion? Maybe just a teeny-tiny chance?

And FWIW no, I don't sell ST tires.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:50 PM   #34
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Experience??? I tried Marathons, Titan II, Denman and Maxxis ST tires and they all failed. Yokohama LT tires didn't. LT tires are not "designed" for a trailer, but they work. I'd almost bet an ST tire on a medium weight car would work if the speeds were kept below 65.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:39 PM   #35
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I've had seven ST 225 75R 15 load range D tire failures over the pst 7 years. Six were Goodyear Marathon Canadian made and one Carlisle.

I switched to ST 225 75R 15 load range E tires 3 years ago. 2 Maxxis and 2 Carlisle. No failures since.

I could not find an LT tire to fit my 15 aluminum rims.

Even though they are only 3 years old, I'll be replacing them all with new Maxxis E's before I head to Colorado this summer.

No more Goodyears or Carlisle tires again for me. The only reason I have 2 Carlisle E's now is that was all that was available when I had 2 blowouts within 5 miles 3 years ago out in the boonies.

Before you say it, I always check pressure before towing, I tow at 62-65 mph and I've weighed the trailer and each wheel is well under the weight rating per wheel.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:57 PM   #36
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Well no mater what facts are presented some people won't listen. I was not happy with my ST tires so I went with a LT, it certainly wasn't cheap but my family and I will be safe. O I forgot to mention I had 15" wheels so I replaced them as well wit 16" wheels and did I mention the my rig has triple axels.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:57 PM   #37
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ST tires are designed for a trailer position only. The LT tire is a multi position tire that can be used on a steer axle/drive axle and a trailer axle according to their manufacturers.
Michelin says this about the XPS Rib tire;

Michelin® XPS Rib® tires are the best value per mile in the Michelin commercial tire lineup and an ideal choice for commercial trailers because of low rolling resistance (for better fuel economy), a long-wear tread design and retreadability. These tires also have the strength of a reinforced all-steel construction for lasting durability.
Responsive handling helps you negotiate through tough traffic
Greater durability and puncture
resistance from a third steel belt.
Easily retreadable all-steel casing
Lowest cost per mile in this category
Resists sidewall damage with the sculptured sidewall protector.
Sidewall: black serrated
outline lettering.
Load Range: E
Service Description: 120/116Q"

Many RV trailers/equipment trailers come with LT tires as OEM or were a upgrade option. In fact before the tire industry gave us the infamous ST tire all we had for a trailer tire was truck tires (LT) and passenger tires (P).
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:14 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMNLIN View Post
ST tires are designed for a trailer position only. The LT tire is a multi position tire that can be used on a steer axle/drive axle and a trailer axle according to their manufacturers.
Which manufacturers would those be? From what I read on manufacturer's websites I can't find any evidence that is correct as a general statement. There is a lot of confusion here caused by lumping multiple factors together. Michelin recommends many of their truck and RV tires (including the XPS) as approved for trailer service but that does not mean that any LT tire they make is so approved, nor will you find Michelin saying that anywhere. In fact if you use their product selector to find RV tires you are taken to their commercial/RV tire site which lists tires approved for truck and trailer service. These specific models do not include every 'LT' tire they make, just certain models.

I then checked the Goodyear site and it's pretty much the same thing, selecting an RV application limits you to a subset of their product line designed for heavy duty and truck/RV applications, not their entire LT product line. In fact Goodyear specifically says:

"LT type tires are actually on a lower formula and would require a significant size or load change to meet the trailer load requirements.

In the design process, we evaluate what works best under trailer applications/conditions. We typically find that a narrower tread width and a shallower non-skid (tread depth) provides a better overall performance in a free rolling position. This is one case where wider is not better. There are significant design differences with these tires and this explains why trailer tires are in a special category. In addition, that is why we recommend using trailer designed or trailer specific tires in trailer towable applications."


So it would appear from what the manufacturers are actually saying that it is permissible to use tires other than those with an ST rating if and only if that tire has been approved for trailer use. Some LT tires are and some are not, and it's not hard see how this would lead to a lot of confusion. Michelin Ribs on a trailer, great. Goodyear truck tires on a trailer, great. But any LT being superior to any ST? There is no hard information I can find that supports a blanket statement like that. From what I can gather the answer seems to be that an approved LT tire with a good track record might certainly be a better choice than a poor ST tire, or that an ST tire with a good track record might certaiunly be better than an LT tire that the manufacturer never intended for trailer use... it just depends.

I'm not trying to prove anyone right or wrong, and in fact depending on the specifics it looks like either 'side' on the issue can be correct. The only real error seems to occur when blanket statements are made.
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:50 PM   #39
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So why all the tire failures? Are people running with too low PSI? Driving faster than rated speed?

I wonder what one would read on the net if every wheel bearing failure was blamed on SKF instead of poor maintenance.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:42 AM   #40
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I doubt there's any single factor but probably a number of them. Tires used in RV service often have a rough life to begin with (high loads, infrequent use, etc.), and yes, maintenance may not always be as perfect as is claimed, plus as everyone knows competetion is intense and mid-line RVs are built to a price point so they will save a buck anywhere they can, and OEM tires are no exception. And since this tends to flood the statistical pool with cheap tires and those tires happen to be ST-rated then there is an obvious opportunity to jump to the conclusion that it is somehow the fault of any tire with an 'ST' on it. But clearly if the ST catagory didn't exist and manufacturers were slapping the cheapest Chinese LT tires they could find on every new unit then the same problem would exist, so my guess is that the issue isn't so much the tire type as RV manufacturers selectng the cheapest option available. As I mentioned previoulsy I was quite surprised at the construction difference between the Power King and the Maxxis. It is true that there seems to be a dearth of options for ST tire alternatives, the only ST tire I could find that seemed to have a good track record is the Maxxis and that is unfortunate. The XPS seems to be a good option, albeit at double the expense.

I think if there is a lesson here it is to use a quality tire that is manufacturer-approved for trailer use (be they ST or LT), maintain them carefully, use a TPMS system to eliminate failures caused by unknown underinflation (as when the tire picks up a nail or slow leak unknown to the operator), and do some research before you buy and avoid any specific tire models with a history of complaints. Those steps would probably eliminate the vast majority of the problems.
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:33 AM   #41
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Good point. Maybe tire manufacturers should come out with an RT tire.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:43 PM   #42
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Marathons

The problems with Marathon ST tires are well documented and pervasive. If I had been aware of forums such as this one back then I would never have purchased them.

If I had known we were going to sell our 5'th wheel and buy a Bounder I would have gone for a less expensive (trailer compatible) LT tire as well!
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