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Old 01-11-2015, 08:54 PM   #15
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Let me add my sales experience. I told them what I was looking for, what spoke to me ended up a little heavier on the pin than expected. He asked what I was towing with, we checked the ratings online. I'm good on my tow rating, I'm good on GCVWR, but I'm a bit over on payload. Just under empty, just over loaded ready for a trip.

He looked at me, asking if I wanted to look at something smaller, then asked if I felt good with the combo.

So not all of them are looking to overload you. At the end of the day it's up to you to take responsibility for what you do.
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:11 PM   #16
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The crux of the statement here is "Can the Toyota pull the trailer?". The answer is yes, but if the question is "Should the Toyota pull the trailer?" the answer may be totally different.
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Old 01-12-2015, 06:59 PM   #17
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Ralphie, not sure how far you went with Lazy Days. Yes they will ask what you have for a TV, then look up the numbers, but in the end they just have you sign a release that they advised that you would exceed your TV's capacity, take you money, and have a nice day. Plus, some of their Salesmen can even read those charts. They wanted me to sign that release saying my TV would be over loaded, when in reality I had plenty of reserve. Pointed them to the correct section of their own chart.
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Old 01-13-2015, 06:32 PM   #18
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Ralphie, not sure how far you went with Lazy Days. Yes they will ask what you have for a TV, then look up the numbers, but in the end they just have you sign a release that they advised that you would exceed your TV's capacity, take you money, and have a nice day. Plus, some of their Salesmen can even read those charts. They wanted me to sign that release saying my TV would be over loaded, when in reality I had plenty of reserve. Pointed them to the correct section of their own chart.
So you got a salesman who misread a chart and asked you to sign a form? Really? Gonna trash LDs over that? I've had much worse experiences at dealerships. I've purchased two campers from LazyDays and they are, IMO, the best by far concerning this issue. I've never felt pressured to "upgrade" and always enjoyed the experience.
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Old 01-13-2015, 06:43 PM   #19
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You will know the salesman is lying if his lips are moving!
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:06 PM   #20
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The ability of a salesman has more to do with their sales skills than technical knowledge. It is more important that the DW likes the features and the salesperson will definitely slant the sales pitch to her.

It takes some knowledge to know all of the ins and outs of the specifications. There are a few salespeople who have been around long enough to know and be secure enough to say to someone who really wants the trailer "Cant sell it to you until you get a bigger truck".

Then there is the lunatic fringe who seem to revel in the fact that they are over but their truck will tow anything that is hooked to it "real good" or "dont even know it is there'". Perhaps one of those is the salesman you are now speaking with.

Yes we have to sort of trust the salesperson but as we know we also have to be "buyer aware".
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Old 01-14-2015, 06:50 PM   #21
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I was at the show this weekend in Ft Worth. I heard a salesman actually tell a guy that his truck would be capable but that he would be right on the cusp of overloaded... and then tell him that... "You could do it, but you shouldn't." I was actually impressed... Maybe they're not all snakes...
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:04 PM   #22
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BUt you gotta remember, when the SPace Shuttle needed to be towed thru down town Los Angles, what did they pick..... Yota!!
As already mentioned, Toyota paid for the 'opportunity' to move the space shuttle... it was one long Toyota commercial and you didn't have to slo-mo the video. Could they have actually driven any slower and still moved the shuttle?

Pulling a large trailer or fifth-wheel is one thing; being able to properly stop it at speed and downgrades can be another matter. I've seen a few pick-ups towing whatever and seen the aftermath of jack knifing everything.

Can't blame the salesperson or brochure if the owner doesn't want to use common sense with real traffic and geographic conditions.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:33 PM   #23
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I have been in sales for my entire career. 28 years with my present employer. It has provided me a good living, saved enough to put a couple kids through school and the satisfaction that what I provided helped a lot of hard working people provide for their families and employees. Just wanted to point out that the buyer has some responsibility in the transaction. Many times my buyers would buy something (other than my recomendation) that they knew would work for them. It didn't, and they blamed me or my company. They said you sold it to me. I would always respond that I did not sell it, they in all their wisdom bought it. Kinda like takin a knife to a gun fight. I think being in sales is an honorable profession. Sales people get bashed so much on this forum. Sorry, just needed to vent a little. My coach has been at the cummins shop the past 2 months. That is after it spent the month of October at Camping World getting 2 front Power Gear jacks replaced. Cheers. JD
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:01 PM   #24
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I have found over the years as my experiences grows with RV's and dealing with salesman how vulnerable one can be. A salesman will sell you anything and tell you what you want to hear if he or she thinks you know nothing, remember the salesman is all about sales.
If you let a salesmen know that you know something about towing and weights they will pull back a bit and be more realistic with you.
We have been camping for 14 years and on our 3Rd camper and I have seen these salesman in action and some of the stuff that comes out of their mouths is unbelievable.
Now me personally I look at two different weights to start, the towable weight of the truck, this what I can drag behind me and the payload, the weight I can carry in the bed of the truck as well as what weight that is in the cab of the truck, this includes passengers.
For a travel trailer and a 5Th wheel, the towable would be what you can drag behind, but for payload with a travel trailer it is the tongue weight which is on the very back end of the truck plus the cargo in the cab and bed of the truck, this where a weight distribution and sway control comes into play.
With a 5Th wheel the pin weight is in the middle of the bed of the truck and over the axle of the truck, even the 5th wheel hitch has weight and has to be considered. You can off set the payload over the pin if you move some of the cargo more to the rear of the 5Th wheel and to the rear side of the axles to the trailer as long as you don't exceed your tow weight.
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:18 PM   #25
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I recently looked-up the Dodge Ram Builder web-site and was pretty shocked to find that there are probably several hundred different configurations for a Dodge Ram pick-up (1500, 2500, 3,500) ....Long box, Short Box, Regular/Club/Crew Cab, various axle ratios, engine configurations, trim levels & options. Tow and payload capacities were all over the map and could differ by hundreds, if not thousands of lbs, even within the 1500 category. Now add the various configurations for Ford, GMC, Toyota, Nissan, etc and the various changes from one year to the next and the ULV/GVWR/GCWR combinations must be in the thousands!!!

Not complicated enough? Now factor in the "unknown weights" the owner will put into his truck....wife kids, dogs, firewood, tools, rock collection....then start computing the various tongue and axle weights for the average RV Dealer with an inventory consisting of a couple of hundred bumper pulls, fifth wheels and campers.

Does anyone seriously expect the salesman to be in a position "off the top of his head" to advise the individual consumer when asked...."Will my truck tow this trailer?" If I was the salesman I'd look you in the eye ....point to the weights sticker and say...."you tell me...it's your truck". We need to STOP blaming the salespeople and start taking some personal responsibility!


Seriously, the only correct answer is that the salesman and the consumer need to spend time researching all the necessary "specific" truck/trailer information for OUR specific application. At this point..... IMO...the salesman should simply be expected to know "how" to do the calculation and WE need to take responsibility for the final (go...no/go) decision. Oh ya....and if the RV operator (us) were required to stop at all highway weigh stations and face stiff fines for towing overweight....we'd stop blaming salespeople and start taking personal responsibility for our decisions. After all....Truckers don't blame the Peterbilt or trailer salesman when they get caught overweight.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:04 AM   #26
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I have been in sales for my entire career. 28 years with my present employer. It has provided me a good living, saved enough to put a couple kids through school and the satisfaction that what I provided helped a lot of hard working people provide for their families and employees. Just wanted to point out that the buyer has some responsibility in the transaction. Many times my buyers would buy something (other than my recomendation) that they knew would work for them. It didn't, and they blamed me or my company. They said you sold it to me. I would always respond that I did not sell it, they in all their wisdom bought it. Kinda like takin a knife to a gun fight. I think being in sales is an honorable profession. Sales people get bashed so much on this forum. Sorry, just needed to vent a little. My coach has been at the cummins shop the past 2 months. That is after it spent the month of October at Camping World getting 2 front Power Gear jacks replaced. Cheers. JD
Jeff;
You are on point. There are daredevils around who know more than the engineers who designed the units. I do believe there has to be more education but. . . . . . .

In today's litigious society it is always easier to blame the other person. On second thought I think it has become intuitive to blame the other person.
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:15 AM   #27
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Jeff;
You are on point. There are daredevils around who know more than the engineers who designed the units. I do believe there has to be more education but. . . . . . .

In today's litigious society it is always easier to blame the other person. On second thought I think it has become intuitive to blame the other person.
Gordon,
Thanks for the comment. I am having a better day today. Found out my coach is ready and I can pick it up after all the warranty papers are approved by cummins. Fingers crossed. JD
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:23 AM   #28
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There is no grade that I can't go up at the legal posted speed with no strain. With the exhaust brake there is no grade I can't go down safely and not heat the brakes. I can pass safely and I don't get blown all over the place by big rigs. I can put anything I want in the truck and fill the tanks on the TT and still be just fine. Mother nature is my biggest limiting factor. I would suggest that you design your RV setup like that and your travels will be easier. Stay as far away from the Max on weights as you can. Example; my TT has two 5200 pound axles and about 1000 on the tongue. That comes out to about 11,200 pounds on a TT that has a UVW of about 7K pounds. My truck is rated to tow WAY over that. I know not everyone can do this but if you can, do it.
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