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Old 05-27-2013, 09:15 PM   #1
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Looking at new 5th wheel Is it to big for my truck?

Ok guys I am looking at a 2014 sabre 33rets 5th wheel. Hitch weight is 1890lbs, dry shipping weight is 10,580lbs, gvwr is 13,890. These weights are from the website. That's all I know about the trailer. Now my truck is a 06 dodge 2500, diesel, 6 speed manual, 3:73 rear end. With me and a full tank of fuel and my dog on the cat scales: Steer axle 4500lbs, Drive axle 2920lbs, gross weight 7420lbs. I know the rawr is 6000lbs and the gcwr is 20,000lbs. Payload is 9000lbs. The only thing missing in the truck is my wife, 150lbs. I am going with the pullrite superglide hitch which weighs about 280lbs. We generally travel fairly light with about 5 gallons of water for use on the road. I don't no anything else about the trailer weights. What do you guys think? I know I will go over on the payload by a few hundred pounds. My thoughts are I would be ok as long as I am conservative on the things we put in the trailer but I would really appreciate your thoughts! Thanks.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:52 PM   #2
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Payload 9000 lbs? I'm thinking thats a mistake .
Many threads and posts about the listed dry trailer / vehice weight being wrong, so you have to be careful with your calculations . From the numbers you've provided, you could be ok , but , and this is JMHO , depending on not carrying stuff in the truck / trailer to keep the weights within limits, is not the way to go.
Prefer GCVW- truck GVWR = Trailer GVWR
And if you ment 9000 for truck GVWR that would limit you to a trailer having a GVWR of 11,000 lbs , you are carrying the trailer pin as part of the truck weight so you can add your 1890, if this is correct to the trailer total and get 12,890 for trailer GVWR. But adding the 1890 pin + hitch, to the scale weight of 7420 puts you overweight on the truck if 9,000 is the truck GCVW. Sorry too big a trailer , by these numbers.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:10 PM   #3
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Your loaded pin weight will be something closer to 2800#. Can your 3/4 ton truck handle that much pin weight? I don't think so. Look at a smaller or lighter weight trailer.

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Old 05-27-2013, 10:34 PM   #4
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Yea I meant the gvwr was 9000lbs for the truck. These numbers get real confusing. TXiceman on the scales my rear axle weight was 2920lbs. If the real pin weight ends up being 2800lbs that is 5720lbs. Rear axle weight rating is 6000lbs. I must be real confused by the numbers. According to these ratings I would be fine. But it would put me over the 9000lb gvwr. Not trying to be smart at all just trying to understand.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:52 PM   #5
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Skip426 I see what you are saying. I really believe I could stay under the 20000lbs combined rating and the rating on the trailer. I would go over the truck rating some though. With the truck being rated at 9000lbs there is no way to come close to 6000lbs on the axle without going over the truck rating. It just dose not make any since to me.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:55 PM   #6
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We have a similar truck and are also looking at upgrading the trailer. I want to keep the trailer gross weight at 10,000 lbs for two reasons. I believe that is as much as I can safely tow especially here in the west where hills are rather steep. Sure, the diesel is capable of more but the truck isn't. I think that trailer is putting you in one ton dually country but it's your call.
My other reason is licensing. Here in B.C. I have to upgrade my dl if the trailer is over that weight which is a pita at best. My wife refuses to, she will not back or park the trailer so I would be stuck with all the driving.
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Old 05-28-2013, 12:55 AM   #7
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All I know is I see 3/4 of all units that size pulled by SRW trucks. I mostly see dualies used on high end units. Also the very opposit on small units. It is even funny to see it set up that way.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:46 AM   #8
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I have pulled heavy on a SRW 3/4 ton Yukon XL before, the white knuckle moments made it so memorable that I will NEVER do that again. The horsepower of a stock 5.9 liter in the 06 Dodge pickup, combined with NO exhaust brake on the Turbo, limits what the truck can pull and control very well. The GCVWR ratings did not start to increase until the 07.5 year model. The 07.5 DRW truck had a 24K GCVWR and pulled very well with the factory exhaust brake and improved engine. Mine would walk a 6 percent grade with a 10K lb TT. Careful study now will save you a lot of trouble in the future!
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:36 AM   #9
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I was at a dealer when a delivery of a 38 foot DRV Mobile Suits was being delivered by a SRW truck. The salesman told me he only sees dually trucks with those heavy units. I talked to the delivery driver. He said he did not like towing that unit. He told me something was wrong with the axles on the 5er and that it was really hard to control. He told me he had air bags on his truck to carry the extra pin weight. Anyway - I came away with the thought that SRW trucks can not handle heavy 5ers.

The trend I see is newbies tow with SRW but most experienced people tow with a dually.

I would not push a 3/4 ton truck to it's limits.
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Old 05-28-2013, 07:10 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by 06cummins197 View Post
Ok guys I am looking at a 2014 sabre 33rets 5th wheel. Hitch weight is 1890lbs, dry shipping weight is 10,580lbs, gvwr is 13,890. These weights are from the website. That's all I know about the trailer. Now my truck is a 06 dodge 2500, diesel, 6 speed manual, 3:73 rear end. With me and a full tank of fuel and my dog on the cat scales: Steer axle 4500lbs, Drive axle 2920lbs, gross weight 7420lbs. I know the rawr is 6000lbs and the gcwr is 20,000lbs. Payload is 9000lbs. The only thing missing in the truck is my wife, 150lbs. I am going with the pullrite superglide hitch which weighs about 280lbs. We generally travel fairly light with about 5 gallons of water for use on the road. I don't no anything else about the trailer weights. What do you guys think? I know I will go over on the payload by a few hundred pounds. My thoughts are I would be ok as long as I am conservative on the things we put in the trailer but I would really appreciate your thoughts! Thanks.
I had a F350 SB SRW V-10 with my Forest River that grosses at 14k which is what the truck was rated for (after all the 'Gross' numbers). Had I been in the plains states I would have felt OK towing it. Here in north east PA I switched to a 350 DRW diesel. I drive more relaxed (no more prying my fingers from the wheel) and my average mileage went from roughly 7.5 to 10.25 (hand calc) towing the same roads.
Knowing now and having tried it, I can only recommend larger. With the larger brakes and other upgrades the next one for me would be a 450 (if possible)(unless I get the lottery... then a Freightliner M2 112 ).
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Old 05-28-2013, 07:29 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by 06cummins197 View Post
Yea I meant the gvwr was 9000lbs for the truck. ...Rear axle weight rating is 6000lbs. I must be real confused by the numbers. According to these ratings I would be fine. But it would put me over the 9000lb gvwr.
There are only two weigh ratings you should be concerned with: GVWR and GCWR. Dodge says you should NEVER exceed either the GVWR or GCWR. And if you never exceed the GVWR, then you'll never get close to the GCWR.

Rear axle weight rating (rGAWR)is probably what's confusing you. But ignore the rear GAWR and worry about the GVWR. If you don't exceed the GVWR, then you'll probably not need to be concerned with rear GAWR.

Quote:
Hitch weight is 1890lbs, dry shipping weight is 10,580lbs, gvwr is 13,890.
Dry weights are useless info and probably understated. Your wet and loaded hitch weight will probably be 18% to 20% of the wet and loaded weight of the trailer, and the trailer will probably weigh close to the GVWR when wet and loaded for the road. 18% of 13,890 = 2,500 pounds, and it could be over 2700 pounds with heavy stuff in the front basement.

9000 GVWR minus 2,500 pounds hitch weight = 6,500 pounds max truck weight before you tie onto the trailer. Your wet and loaded truck is going to weigh a lot more than 6,500 pounds, so you're going to be overloaded with that trailer.

To estimate the max weight of a 5er you can tow with your truck without exceeding the GVWR, load the truck with everyone and everything that will be in it when towing. Drive to a truck stop that has a truck scale, fill up with fuel, and weigh the wet and loaded truck. Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded truck from the GVWR of the truck and the answer is the max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded. Divide that max hitch weight by 0.18 and the answer is the max weight of any 5er you can probably tow without being overloaded. (It will probably be less than 10,000 pounds max trailer weight.)
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:01 AM   #12
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Ok guys, I want to say thank you for all of your help! My wife and I really do not like the smaller 5th wheels and my truck is paid for. I think we are going to start looking at some of the bigger travel trailers. I have drove myself crazy debating this decision. Thanks so much.
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Old 05-28-2013, 01:40 PM   #13
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I think we are going to start looking at some of the bigger travel trailers.
Your problem is that pickup with heavy diesel engine has GVWR of only 9,000 pounds. You can tow a heavier TT than 5er without being overloaded, but you still cannot tow the biggest of the TTs.

TT hitch weight varies from around 12% to 15%, with "normal" being 12.5%. If you want to be certain of not being overloaded, then use 15% of the GVWR of the trailer as the probable wet and loaded hitch weight. If you use less than 12.5% of GVWR as the probable wet and loaded hitch weight, you're just fooling yourself.

If your wet and loaded tow vehicle weighs 8,000 pounds before you tie onto the trailer, that leaves 1000 pounds for hitch weight without being overloaded. That's a TT with a GVWR of not more than 8,000 pounds. If the trailer specs do not include GVWR, then add trailer shipping weight to cargo capacity weight and the answer is the trailer's GVWR.

For example, the Keystone Bullet #298BHS has shipping weight of 5716 plus cargo capacity of 1924 for a GVWR of 7,640. 12.5% of 7640 is 955 pounds. So if your wet and loaded pickup weighs 8,000 pounds, add 955 hitch weight and you're looking at GVW of 8955. Not overloaded, but not much wiggle room for adding some firewood or some such.
Bullet

Here's the floorplan of the Bullet #298BHS, which is about the heaviest TT you can probably tow without being overloaded:


So your first job is to determine how much your wet and loaded tow vehicle weighs. If it's about 8,000 pounds, then you've got your answer.

I estimated 8,000 pounds as the example because my '99.5 F-250 CrewCab 4x2 longbed diesel grossed about 8,000 pounds before tying onto the RV.
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Old 05-29-2013, 01:08 PM   #14
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I can tell no difference towing my 14000 GVWR trailer with my current dually or my previous 2500 with airbags and Bilstein shocks.
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