Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-27-2007, 05:03 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 24
I'm still trying to solve a loss of towing power issue that I've got with a 06' LBZ. I tried asking at the DIESEL PLACE; went to the DIESEL PAGE and have given up, and now looking for help here. Being basicly a towing issue maybe there's someone here who has had the problem and sovled it?
To set the senario:
In stock form the truck pulled our 12,000 lb fifth wheel very well; most always in 6th and I never experienced any heating issues. I had owned only gassers before and was truly amazed at the difference, especially pulling the mountain passes of N Mex and Colo that we go over on vacations.

I added a Juice with attitude, which I only use in the mileage mode, and the unloaded performance was far better than stock. Towing performance was no different that I could tell, I was a bit surprised that it wasn't in relation to what I experienced unloaded but laid it off to the fact that I had changed to 265 tires since the last time I had towed. (A note on larger tires-----Past experience has proven to me that larger tires no matter how small a difference; 1" in this case, pose a problem that the GM ECM's simply don't deal with very well, ie a bigger loss of power than what would be normally expected. I think that with the old worn 245's the truck would have probably pulled better than stock with the Edge but the 265's effectively canceled out any power gain for towing; so my bad and when these wear out I will go back to the 245's.) The exhaust gas temps, which the attitude now allowed me to monitor, sometimes reached just over 1200degs on the really severe grades; if I really pushed it. (It is my feeling that the taller tires likely produced higher EGT and water temp than with the 245's but without monitoring before that is only speculation and if any I would think the difference would be negledgable) The truck seemed to be able to handle any speed on any grade----incredible; and a far cry from what the old 8.1's could do sometimes pulling down to 40mph when the Duramax seemed rather relaxed at 65.

Enter the problems:
I modified my intake system, which around town any significant change in performance was unfelt other than a percieved quicker throttle response. Intake air temps according to the Attitude showed to be at least 10 degrees cooler which I was really pleased with and assumed would also enhance towing performance.
The modification consisted of:
A. Removeing the passenger side tow hook and installing a plentum in the air dam hole.
B. Running a 3" alum dryer vent hose from the plentum up to an enlarged hole in the shroud and into the air box space.
C. Removed material around the diverter vanes so that the 3" supply had a direct route into the filter housing.
D. Enlarge the original inlet holes from the fender well to the air box.
E. Improved the factory sealing off of the air box from the engine compartment.

I did not tow with this modification alone so I do not know what effect it had on the towing power or tempretures.

Next I added a Banks Monster cat back exhaust. Again I can not say that there was much difference noted unloaded, better or worse.

NOW THE FIRST TIME I TOWED in this configuration I immediatly noticed that the truck wasn't pulling as well as before and didn't want to pull in the same gear. The EGT's seemed higher but I wasn't positive. The futher we went the power loss became quite evident and the EGT's were definately higher as we went over the same route that we take several times a year going to Colorado. Of note also was that the ambient temp was about 20 degrees cooler than the time before when I towed with the Edge alone. Egt's were averageing around1200 with only a slight adverse wind on fairly flat terrain at 70mph and intake temps 140's to 150's(?). About 130 miles into the trip we went up only a moderate grade, but long, and I saw the EGT go a bit over 1300; I was shocked and even made the comment to the wife that I guess I screwed up with putting on the exhaust and that it would probably have to be coming off after the trip. Added also that I only put it on because it was supposed to lower the EGT and I guess you can't believe much of what you read in those rosey postings about the benifits of a performance exhaust system. After we reached northern N Mex and were going up Raton pass the EGT reached over 1350 quickly and I eased back babying it up the pass at about half the speed we usually pull that pass. Water temps were also higher than I had ever seen them. I'm really PO"d at this point and it would get worse. The edge alarms got so frequent and annoying that I set the limits at 1350 EGT and 220 for the water and still got alarms too often, even thou I was trying to baby the truck way more than normal. Intake air temps were seen as high as 180 degs, EGTs often in the 1380's and a high of 238 degrees was observed for the water temp. and the truck pulled so bad it reminded me of a gasser (well not quite that bad but one to two gears worse than before).

After getting back I went in search for answers with minimal solid input that I could put to use for tracking down the true problem or any substantial explanation for what was happening.

One response I got was from Banks Engr. and in a subsequent phone conversation with them suggested that I move the MAF sensor in the intake track to a position just down stream of the turbo intake tube. They also stated that with their intake system and with the MAF sensor in this position that the EGR valve would stay closed most all of the time and that an open EGR valve was most likely causing my power loss and high tempretures. I posted questions about this move and the spectrum of wokings of the MAF sensor and got a few interesting responses but nothing substantive enough to provoke much confidence in the consensus or the modification. I believe the general feeling was that I was an idiot for even contemplating such a thing. So not wanting to prove them wrong (about being an idiot) I moved the MAF.
Very simple mod.; I bought another intake tube from GM, put a 1 11/32" hole in it in the bend just before the connection to the turbo intake and installed the sensor in a neoprene grommet in the hole. The fit is very tight so no other mounting parts were required. The original sensor hole just past the air box got a plate and gasket to block it off.
The MAF sensor was oriented in relation to air flow the same as stock for the first testing. Performance did not seem much different from the stock position, maybe some better but probably just a mind thing. The difference was that the intake air temps seemed to be about 7 degrees lower than before but the EGT's seemed a bit higher, not sure. My thought was that maybe this was making a change in how the EGR was operating. My hope was if Banks suggestions were correct that even though the truck didn't seem much different unloaded that this would fix the power and heat problems I was having when towing. The next day I got a P 0101 code so I thought that I would just rotate the sensor's orientation to the air flow to see if that would help with the coding issue. With the mounting set up that I made this was very easy; the sensor can be easily rotated 360 degrees with just a twist in the grommet.
I first rotated the sensor so that the plug in was upstream of the air flow and took off to see what the effects would be fully expecting the ECM to go crazy with the air going by the sensor in such an unorthodox manner. To my great surprise the truck ran better than it ever has and the EGT was down as well as the intake air temp., maybe we are on to something here I thought; I ain't lieing I was getting excited about maybe hitting on something to fix the truck even if the naysayers thought that I was crazy for doing such a thing.
This was fun so I thought lets see what effect turning the plug facing down stream has on things. Surprise again,it ran better than when pointing upstream and the air temp and EGT's are still down. I did a quick check with the mileage calculator and things seem to be good. Now I need to tow and see if things are back to normal with the load.
Downside is I am still getting codes P0101 and P0102 so things are not right. Might do some more rotating but I'm sure that is no solution. Also at this point I don't even know if the truck will pull the fifth wheel as before but I am optimistic in that regard. It may even be that I haven't even touched on the problem, and the only answer may be in getting rid of the exhaust and or the intake mods, I don't know but I'm open to input. A true understanding of the whole intake/exhaust system would I'm sure prove immensely valuable but that my be beyond me or everyone even GM. I find it so strange that my problems seem to be so unique; I would think that there are others out there how pull heavy that have made similar modifications who would have experienced the same problems that I have seen.

Sorry for the lenght but I thought a thorough explainational might do away with some questions.
__________________

__________________
rrraider is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-27-2007, 05:03 PM   #2
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 24
I'm still trying to solve a loss of towing power issue that I've got with a 06' LBZ. I tried asking at the DIESEL PLACE; went to the DIESEL PAGE and have given up, and now looking for help here. Being basicly a towing issue maybe there's someone here who has had the problem and sovled it?
To set the senario:
In stock form the truck pulled our 12,000 lb fifth wheel very well; most always in 6th and I never experienced any heating issues. I had owned only gassers before and was truly amazed at the difference, especially pulling the mountain passes of N Mex and Colo that we go over on vacations.

I added a Juice with attitude, which I only use in the mileage mode, and the unloaded performance was far better than stock. Towing performance was no different that I could tell, I was a bit surprised that it wasn't in relation to what I experienced unloaded but laid it off to the fact that I had changed to 265 tires since the last time I had towed. (A note on larger tires-----Past experience has proven to me that larger tires no matter how small a difference; 1" in this case, pose a problem that the GM ECM's simply don't deal with very well, ie a bigger loss of power than what would be normally expected. I think that with the old worn 245's the truck would have probably pulled better than stock with the Edge but the 265's effectively canceled out any power gain for towing; so my bad and when these wear out I will go back to the 245's.) The exhaust gas temps, which the attitude now allowed me to monitor, sometimes reached just over 1200degs on the really severe grades; if I really pushed it. (It is my feeling that the taller tires likely produced higher EGT and water temp than with the 245's but without monitoring before that is only speculation and if any I would think the difference would be negledgable) The truck seemed to be able to handle any speed on any grade----incredible; and a far cry from what the old 8.1's could do sometimes pulling down to 40mph when the Duramax seemed rather relaxed at 65.

Enter the problems:
I modified my intake system, which around town any significant change in performance was unfelt other than a percieved quicker throttle response. Intake air temps according to the Attitude showed to be at least 10 degrees cooler which I was really pleased with and assumed would also enhance towing performance.
The modification consisted of:
A. Removeing the passenger side tow hook and installing a plentum in the air dam hole.
B. Running a 3" alum dryer vent hose from the plentum up to an enlarged hole in the shroud and into the air box space.
C. Removed material around the diverter vanes so that the 3" supply had a direct route into the filter housing.
D. Enlarge the original inlet holes from the fender well to the air box.
E. Improved the factory sealing off of the air box from the engine compartment.

I did not tow with this modification alone so I do not know what effect it had on the towing power or tempretures.

Next I added a Banks Monster cat back exhaust. Again I can not say that there was much difference noted unloaded, better or worse.

NOW THE FIRST TIME I TOWED in this configuration I immediatly noticed that the truck wasn't pulling as well as before and didn't want to pull in the same gear. The EGT's seemed higher but I wasn't positive. The futher we went the power loss became quite evident and the EGT's were definately higher as we went over the same route that we take several times a year going to Colorado. Of note also was that the ambient temp was about 20 degrees cooler than the time before when I towed with the Edge alone. Egt's were averageing around1200 with only a slight adverse wind on fairly flat terrain at 70mph and intake temps 140's to 150's(?). About 130 miles into the trip we went up only a moderate grade, but long, and I saw the EGT go a bit over 1300; I was shocked and even made the comment to the wife that I guess I screwed up with putting on the exhaust and that it would probably have to be coming off after the trip. Added also that I only put it on because it was supposed to lower the EGT and I guess you can't believe much of what you read in those rosey postings about the benifits of a performance exhaust system. After we reached northern N Mex and were going up Raton pass the EGT reached over 1350 quickly and I eased back babying it up the pass at about half the speed we usually pull that pass. Water temps were also higher than I had ever seen them. I'm really PO"d at this point and it would get worse. The edge alarms got so frequent and annoying that I set the limits at 1350 EGT and 220 for the water and still got alarms too often, even thou I was trying to baby the truck way more than normal. Intake air temps were seen as high as 180 degs, EGTs often in the 1380's and a high of 238 degrees was observed for the water temp. and the truck pulled so bad it reminded me of a gasser (well not quite that bad but one to two gears worse than before).

After getting back I went in search for answers with minimal solid input that I could put to use for tracking down the true problem or any substantial explanation for what was happening.

One response I got was from Banks Engr. and in a subsequent phone conversation with them suggested that I move the MAF sensor in the intake track to a position just down stream of the turbo intake tube. They also stated that with their intake system and with the MAF sensor in this position that the EGR valve would stay closed most all of the time and that an open EGR valve was most likely causing my power loss and high tempretures. I posted questions about this move and the spectrum of wokings of the MAF sensor and got a few interesting responses but nothing substantive enough to provoke much confidence in the consensus or the modification. I believe the general feeling was that I was an idiot for even contemplating such a thing. So not wanting to prove them wrong (about being an idiot) I moved the MAF.
Very simple mod.; I bought another intake tube from GM, put a 1 11/32" hole in it in the bend just before the connection to the turbo intake and installed the sensor in a neoprene grommet in the hole. The fit is very tight so no other mounting parts were required. The original sensor hole just past the air box got a plate and gasket to block it off.
The MAF sensor was oriented in relation to air flow the same as stock for the first testing. Performance did not seem much different from the stock position, maybe some better but probably just a mind thing. The difference was that the intake air temps seemed to be about 7 degrees lower than before but the EGT's seemed a bit higher, not sure. My thought was that maybe this was making a change in how the EGR was operating. My hope was if Banks suggestions were correct that even though the truck didn't seem much different unloaded that this would fix the power and heat problems I was having when towing. The next day I got a P 0101 code so I thought that I would just rotate the sensor's orientation to the air flow to see if that would help with the coding issue. With the mounting set up that I made this was very easy; the sensor can be easily rotated 360 degrees with just a twist in the grommet.
I first rotated the sensor so that the plug in was upstream of the air flow and took off to see what the effects would be fully expecting the ECM to go crazy with the air going by the sensor in such an unorthodox manner. To my great surprise the truck ran better than it ever has and the EGT was down as well as the intake air temp., maybe we are on to something here I thought; I ain't lieing I was getting excited about maybe hitting on something to fix the truck even if the naysayers thought that I was crazy for doing such a thing.
This was fun so I thought lets see what effect turning the plug facing down stream has on things. Surprise again,it ran better than when pointing upstream and the air temp and EGT's are still down. I did a quick check with the mileage calculator and things seem to be good. Now I need to tow and see if things are back to normal with the load.
Downside is I am still getting codes P0101 and P0102 so things are not right. Might do some more rotating but I'm sure that is no solution. Also at this point I don't even know if the truck will pull the fifth wheel as before but I am optimistic in that regard. It may even be that I haven't even touched on the problem, and the only answer may be in getting rid of the exhaust and or the intake mods, I don't know but I'm open to input. A true understanding of the whole intake/exhaust system would I'm sure prove immensely valuable but that my be beyond me or everyone even GM. I find it so strange that my problems seem to be so unique; I would think that there are others out there how pull heavy that have made similar modifications who would have experienced the same problems that I have seen.

Sorry for the lenght but I thought a thorough explainational might do away with some questions.
__________________

__________________
rrraider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 07:16 AM   #3
CD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Kingston, Wa. USA
Posts: 1,221
rrraider
I don't know much about your problem but here's what I have experienced.
We bought an '01 Dodge CTD W/354 Diff. & 6 speed Tranny. When towing and going up a hill it would start slowing so shifted and it would not pick back up for about a 1/4 mile. Then it would take off. I finially figured out that before shifting the EGTs would go up, the computor would sense it and cut back on fuel to save itself. After a short distance in 5th it cooled down & it got the fuel it needed to go. With about 7K on it, it was totaled so bought another one with the 410 diff. Don't have that problem any more. We made one trip with the new one (to Calif) that I could compare milage and only lost about 1/2MPG. I will live with that for good performance.
__________________
Cliff

'01 3500 Ram QC HO 6sp. BD Exhaust Brake
CD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 07:33 AM   #4
Member
 
superduty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Posts: 77
rrraider-I'll take a stab.

I read through most of your post, not all of it. I seemed to have similar problems with my powerstroke that I used to have. I jumped on the mod bandwagon and got hooked on "needing" a better intake (I thought since it's stock it must be crap) and did similar to what you described. I also started getting EGT's that would run away when towing (easily into the high 1400's). Next the guys on the forums were running an open element homemade setup and they swore by it, raving about how it opened up power and lowered temps. So of course I made one, I saw no results. Next they all told me since I had an early model with a cat on it that needed to go and I needed a 4" or bigger. I first just pulled the exhaust completly off at the downpipe and went for a tow, suprisingly it wasn't much louder than stock, but alas still high EGT's. Then I got convinced I had an exhaust leak pre-turbo causing loss of effiency to the turbo, sure enough, found a small leak, fixed it, still no better. Actually it was worse, now my turbo had a surge issue(mine was an "early" model and surge wasn't supposed to be an issue).

I ended up trading the truck in for a Dmax, primarily because the F*rd was only an extended cab and a manual and we now needed a crew cab and the allison auto is sooooooo much nicer than that stiff a$$ clutch in the F*rd.

I too had the larger tires and a chip on that truck, sure the tires caused a power loss(265 to 315's) but I don't think the heat issue was from the tires, at first everyone said the tires would cause it if in overdrive. Sure I can see that so I ran in 4th or even 3rd. Bottom line if I drove by EGT limit, on the hills I needed 3rd gear and near redline and 40mph. Sure 4th had plenty of power at a good rpm range, but heat was way too high.

Back to your issue, I would think of returning the intake to stock, see what that does. Second I would possbily fault the chip. A friend of mine has an LB7 with 285's and tows a large toyhauler 5er. He had the juice attitude, but ended up dumping it for EFI live, I believe for similar problems as you. The EFI setup is pretty sweet.

As far as the tires, sure they aren't helping, but I wouldn't condemn them. My friend has the 285's and loves the way they look and they don't affect his towing much. Also in the meantime between my stroker and getting the LBZ I thought maybe I didn't need a diesel for towing so I got into a used 8.1. It had 285's on it. It towed great, for a gasser, in the end I couldn't live with the Hohum power and poor mileage, so away it went. But the allison in that truck had no issues with the larger tires.

I kind of think I'll keep my LBZ stock. I am actually kind of dreading when my OEM tires wear out, because I know I'll just have to put 285's on it and hope towing doesn't suffer too much.

Just my thoughts, FWIW.
__________________
2007 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 HD crewcab, Duramax

superduty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 02:51 PM   #5
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 24
Thanks for the good comments; I'm about to go back to the stock location of the MAF this evening and unhook the Edge and see how that works. I have had the Edge unhooked before and found that the truck really took a hit in the power department but that was only when not towing. If the Edge is part or all of the problem I am really going to miss all the info provided by the Attitude; wish there was a way to use it without the programming if it proves to be bad. Then I guess the Banks will be gone---can't believe that is killing power but that was my first though the first time I pulled with it on---I think my ears turned red from the steam issueing from them. The addition of the cold air???? I for sure can't believe that would hurt---it always helped with my gasser's but that's such a different animal so who knows. Totally stock worked awesome just not enough monitoring gadgets for my preference!!!!!
__________________
rrraider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 04:47 PM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 24
I unhooked the Edge and this time the truck did not seem to suffer any power loss; in fact may have picked up some but that could be purely optimism on my part. In any case that is good proof that the Edge must have a problem. Did a mileage check and it seems to be better. Now how to monitor things---feel quite insecure without the Attitude---you get so used to that so quickly.
__________________
rrraider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2007, 02:59 AM   #7
Junior Member
 
Pegasus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Waunakee, WI
Posts: 9
rrraider,
Install egt & boost gauges, many brands and mounting options available. I have Isspro gauges mounted in the overhead console. Also have the Predator tuner set on level 2 (65 hp & 150 ft lbs) works for me.
__________________
2003 Chevrolet 2500HD D/A LT EC SB, 1999 29 Ft Wilderness GL
Pegasus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2007, 07:21 AM   #8
Member
 
superduty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Posts: 77
I'll second what pegasus said.

Install regular gauges to monitor whatever you like.

The hardest part, the pyrometer probe, should already be there(from the attitude). If not put one in pre-turbo. I'm not quite sure where the best place is on these LBZ's. On my stroker I had mine in the drivers exhaust manifold, just drilled and tapped it.

Boost gauges are simple. Trans temp is already monitored.

I'm not the familiar with the attitude, what else did it monitor?

Have you tried towing without the Edge? Sure power will be less (chipped vs stock), but what do your temps do?

I have read where people talk how good the OEM airflow on the LBZ is. If a homemade ram air would give that much benefit I think GM would have done it that way OEM, since HP and tourqe numbers are HUGE bragging rights these days.


I would leave the Banks exhaust for now. If your set on pulling it off, put it in a box and send it to me!
__________________
2007 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 HD crewcab, Duramax

superduty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2007, 04:42 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Foxboro Ma.
Posts: 175
I have had two trucks with Edge stuff and my LBZ has a custom Kennedy diesel live EFI tune. Honestly the edge stuff makes ok top end power but not much low end where you need it towing. The JK tune I have will pull almost every grade I have towed on in 6th gear and no had a problem doing so. My first thought is to tell you set your EGT limit and alarm to 1450* and leave it there , dont worry about it stock these trucks run 1400 at high elavations on a warm day. Its not a problem. second watch your boost chances are your bost is falling off as you hit the bas of the hill at 1800 rpm and thats the window where the stock ECm looses power fast below that point , EDGE cant fix that . Edge uses the stock ecm fueling but fools the ecm by thinking there is more airflow then there really is. SO less air , more fuel = higher EGT . EDGE will work better for you if you tow in 5th gear but your fuel economy goes down some. The non stock air intake system isnt a good idea , put it back to stock after the airfilter , do what ever you want before the filter. I have found no bennifit from aftermarket air filters with this truck , cant say the same for the older trucks. Gm finaly put a filter big enough for the amount of air the turbo motor needs. Up to the 2006 model the gas 6L ,8.1L and 6.6 turbo all shared the same filter. You cant tell me that a turbo doesnt pull alot more air threw a filter then the 8.1L motor. Edge in my older trucks would start to back down about 50~80*f before it got to the set limit , this is why I say set it above 1450 . I know you dont want to hear it but sell the edge and have Jk reprogram your ECM with his tow/performance tune , you will be happy with your choice in the end. also my crew cab 4x4 with the trailer gross weight is right around 17,000 lbs combine maybe slightly over that.
__________________
2001 Holiday Rambler 31' cks 10000 lbs loaded
2006 2500hd duramax/allison crew cab
xc-mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2007, 03:41 PM   #10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 24
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'll second what pegasus said.

Install regular gauges to monitor whatever you like.

The hardest part, the pyrometer probe, should already be there(from the attitude). If not put one in pre-turbo. I'm not quite sure where the best place is on these LBZ's. On my stroker I had mine in the drivers exhaust manifold, just drilled and tapped it.

Boost gauges are simple. Trans temp is already monitored.

I'm not the familiar with the attitude, what else did it monitor?

Have you tried towing without the Edge? Sure power will be less (chipped vs stock), but what do your temps do?

I have read where people talk how good the OEM airflow on the LBZ is. If a homemade ram air would give that much benefit I think GM would have done it that way OEM, since HP and tourqe numbers are HUGE bragging rights these days.


I would leave the Banks exhaust for now. If your set on pulling it off, put it in a box and send it to me! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Edge Attitude monitors everything that is available in the ECM plus EGT's which are supplied pre-turbo off the passenger side bank. The Attitude reads boost, load, throttle position, intake air temp (manifold), water temp (surprising how much it differs from the highly inaccurate dash guage) trans. temp. (again different), mph,rpm ,barometric pressure and on and on.
Power WITH the Edge seemed to be less as I stated in the original post; and was futher deterioated with the addition of the Banks exhaust as well as futher raising of EGT and water temps.
The LBZ does have an excellant intake system; all I did was add some cooler air to it and limit the influx of hot air from the engine compartment.
Unloaded power without the Edge (or I should say, Edge working properly) is drastically lower; but I have not towed like this so I cannot say what effect that this change has had there.
I talked to an Edge rep and they will be sending me a new unit and we will see what happens. Edge is very customer responsive, but it will still remain to be seen if the new unit will work well for towing or if the problem is actually with the exhaust. In the mean time I will have to make time to tow the rig in the current configuration so as to be able to evaluate the new Edge.
__________________
rrraider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2007, 04:45 PM   #11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 24
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Hide Post
I have had two trucks with Edge stuff and my LBZ has a custom Kennedy diesel live EFI tune. Honestly the edge stuff makes ok top end power but not much low end where you need it towing. The JK tune I have will pull almost every grade I have towed on in 6th gear and no had a problem doing so. My first thought is to tell you set your EGT limit and alarm to 1450* and leave it there , dont worry about it stock these trucks run 1400 at high elavations on a warm day. Its not a problem. second watch your boost chances are your bost is falling off as you hit the bas of the hill at 1800 rpm and thats the window where the stock ECm looses power fast below that point , EDGE cant fix that . Edge uses the stock ecm fueling but fools the ecm by thinking there is more airflow then there really is. SO less air , more fuel = higher EGT . EDGE will work better for you if you tow in 5th gear but your fuel economy goes down some. The non stock air intake system isnt a good idea , put it back to stock after the airfilter , do what ever you want before the filter. I have found no bennifit from aftermarket air filters with this truck , cant say the same for the older trucks. Gm finaly put a filter big enough for the amount of air the turbo motor needs. Up to the 2006 model the gas 6L ,8.1L and 6.6 turbo all shared the same filter. You cant tell me that a turbo doesnt pull alot more air threw a filter then the 8.1L motor. Edge in my older trucks would start to back down about 50~80*f before it got to the set limit , this is why I say set it above 1450 . I know you dont want to hear it but sell the edge and have Jk reprogram your ECM with his tow/performance tune , you will be happy with your choice in the end. also my crew cab 4x4 with the trailer gross weight is right around 17,000 lbs combine maybe slightly over that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all, I must say that is the best response that I have see since starting numerous threads in search of answers to my problems over two months ago. I think you actually took the time to read before responding; quite novel these days. I detect some knowledge without flaunt.
I'm sure the Kennedy tune is good and what you say about the Edge's low end could be a valid point but unloaded the Edge seems to provide some very good low end grunt which I though was a big part of why the addition of the Edge made such a difference in the way the truck performed around town (and I am not a 60 year old hot rodder). That said I realize that things can change quite drastically when you strap on 12000 lbs but who knows, your experience with the Edge says that your current tune is better, but of course that was with a different generation engine for the comparison. So many factors involved. Bottom line here is that I really hate to lose the monitoring systems that the Attitude provides but that may just be a fact that I have to face.
Honestly 1450 degrees scares me, and with the Edge alone I never even got to 1300. It was only after the addition of the exhaust that we consistantly were in the 1300 range. Stock I can not imagine that EGT's were ever that hot because the truck always pulled 6th so effortlously and there was never any indication from the stock water temp guage that things were too hot. Caviot? the stock temp guage is not too accurate.
Your air flow-- fuel assesment makes sense regarding EGT's; but from the way I so drastically altered the flow at the MAF and the results that I got, there are things going on there that nobody seems to have a grasp of. I without a doubt came close to doubleing the direct air flow at the MAF, increased performance, lowered intake and EGT's and kept mpg's the same. Also less smoke???? Edge gone out of whack; don't know but suspect that would not be the result even if it wasn't.
Whats your take on EGR blocking?
How do you think the 4" exhausts effect torque?
How could additional cold air make things worse?
__________________
rrraider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2007, 06:36 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Foxboro Ma.
Posts: 175
First off more cold air is a good thing BUT if you change the way the mass airflow has air flowing around it it very well could have reading some what off from whats really going into the motor . This is why I feel leaving the stock airbox and pipe routing in the exact OEM configuration is very important. I would bet the ECM uses air flow reading in a 3D fuel / timeing map .

EGR , many feel that the EGR should be plug off to stop the soot from entering the motor ... I agree with this idea but what happends if I need warrenty work done , almost every dealer I have ever gone to knows less about the duramax motors then I give them credit for.... seams every problem needs a fuel filter changed or they will not work on it , even after I tell them is just was changed 6 hours ago! Thanks , now that I have paid you $140.00 now can you fix it? Try asking your dealer for the filter after they change it , one said its in the trash so I asked to see if he cut it open....No


after market exhaust : Here is a dyno plot from Kennedy diesel in house power meter , note that he also shows EGT readings on the second chart. Now I know this isnt exactly your truck or motor but they will all react the same given bolt ons like we have .

http://www.kennedydiesel.com/ and then look under performance exhaust .


My truck stock has just a tiny bit of gray smoke and a LT puff of black when your first stand on it. Fuel economy stock is 14.5 ~16 mpg driving 70 ~75 mph

The truck: 4x4 , crew cab ,265 tires with the ecm corrected for tire size , 6' bed with a cap level with the roof of the truck and scales at 8300 lbs min (most days it has a pile of tools in the bed) , 55 psi in the front tires , 65~70 in the rears .

any problems that you think you may have the first thing to do is disconnect the Juice and return it to just a stock ECM ! I had issues with the truck stalling , turbo bark (air reversion),skipping, rough idle.... all of these issues where made worse with juice plugged in , some where caused by the edge box.
If you deside to keep the edge think about keeping it cool and maybe putting a fan on the box. After 2 hours of run time you dont want to hold the black box in your hand for long its well beyond hot!
__________________
2001 Holiday Rambler 31' cks 10000 lbs loaded
2006 2500hd duramax/allison crew cab
xc-mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2007, 01:42 PM   #13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 24
What I was looking for in the way of explaination, was how the truck made so much more power and hab better response with the MAF sensor in a high flow area, also little detectable smoke. Think I nstated this but if not; the sensor has been rlocated back to the stock site because of the constant coding.
I agree with what you say about the Edge box, it seems to hold a whole lot of heat. I have intended to route some air there in the same manor that I routed air to the filter box but utilizing the air dam hole at the driver side recovery hook hole---just haven't gotten around to it. I think this will also help lower overall engine compartment heat which will be a plus for numerous reasons.
__________________

__________________
rrraider is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
7.3 PSD, experiencing significant loss of power with truck camper+towing saturn vue Hemi Powerstroke Engine Forum 24 12-09-2008 05:22 PM
Loss of Power USCSOS Spartan Motorhome Chassis Forum 3 09-30-2007 03:28 AM
Loss of AC Power RVersOnline Alpine Coach Owner's Forum 7 02-04-2007 03:21 PM
Power loss tomsm Winnebago Industries Owner's Forum 25 11-30-2005 08:55 AM
Loss of Towing Power ---Modified LBZ Duramax Engine Forum 12 12-31-1969 07:00 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.