Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-28-2006, 04:58 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
baddwalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 125
I got my first tank of ULSD in September before going to Las Vegas for the week. My truck felt like it had lost some power while towing my fiver for about the first 40 miles or so. After that, my truck adjusted to the fuel and everything was back to normal. I did get about 1 to 1.5 mpg better fuel economy while towing than I had previously had. I contacted GM about the new fuel and they said that there should be no problems. We will see.
__________________
Don W.

2002 Chevy 2500HD CC/LB D/A
baddwalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-29-2006, 12:05 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
woodburner's Avatar
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Pond Piggies Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mentor Ohio
Posts: 875
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My truck felt like it had lost some power while towing my fiver for about the first 40 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mine did the same....but just the opposite in mileage. At first I thought I might have got some wet diesel.....but it leveled out in the first hour. This is gonna be interesting!
__________________

2012 Tiffin Allegro 34TGA
2013 Jeep Wrangler Sport
woodburner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2006, 04:14 AM   #17
Member
 
Stylin''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wind Lake, WI
Posts: 79
There seems to be much confusion over the new fuel and regulations. After an extended conversation with someone at the EPA, I was told that the new fuel had to be sold exclusively for onroad use nationwide sometime in late 2010. Both fuels can legally be sold and used up to that time, but the pumps have to be marked either LSD or ULSD effective 6/1/06. Right. Violations occur if pumps aren't marked, or if they are marked incorrectly. Pumps that are marked ULSD can dispense a mixture of up to 20% LSD calculated over a years time up until the late 2010 date. If the pumps you use aren't marked, contact a district EPA office and they will contact the vendor. As for possible adverse effects in using the new fuel, a local diesel repair shop has seen failures of fuel filter seals in older Powerstrokes, and injection pumps in Cummins that they attribute to the new fuel. GM's Duramax seems unaffected at least for now. Just some more info to add to the confusion.
__________________
2005 Mountaineer 298RLS & 2003 Chevrolet Silverado Crew Cab 2500HD Duramax/Allison
Stylin' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2006, 04:45 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Ecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 770
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stylin':
There seems to be much confusion over the new fuel and regulations. After an extended conversation with someone at the EPA, I was told that the new fuel had to be sold exclusively for onroad use nationwide sometime in late 2010. Both fuels can legally be sold and used up to that time, but the pumps have to be marked either LSD or ULSD effective 6/1/06. Right. Violations occur if pumps aren't marked, or if they are marked incorrectly. Pumps that are marked ULSD can dispense a mixture of up to 20% LSD calculated over a years time up until the late 2010 date. If the pumps you use aren't marked, contact a district EPA office and they will contact the vendor. As for possible adverse effects in using the new fuel, a local diesel repair shop has seen failures of fuel filter seals in older Powerstrokes, and injection pumps in Cummins that they attribute to the new fuel. GM's Duramax seems unaffected at least for now. Just some more info to add to the confusion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


There are a couple of errors in this response. First and most important is that there can be no mixing of LSD with ULSD at the retial tank/ pumps. The 07 engines require S15. The 80% is the requirement that refiners production must meet now at the gate but they are allowed to degrade it up to certain limits and sell as LSD until 2010. The other issue is that it is not the injector pump on Cummins but the lift pump that has shown problems on older engines and Cummins issued a bulletin covering this in August of 2005.
__________________
Ecker
Ecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2006, 02:10 PM   #19
Member
 
Stylin''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wind Lake, WI
Posts: 79
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ecker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stylin':
There seems to be much confusion over the new fuel and regulations. After an extended conversation with someone at the EPA, I was told that the new fuel had to be sold exclusively for onroad use nationwide sometime in late 2010. Both fuels can legally be sold and used up to that time, but the pumps have to be marked either LSD or ULSD effective 6/1/06. Right. Violations occur if pumps aren't marked, or if they are marked incorrectly. Pumps that are marked ULSD can dispense a mixture of up to 20% LSD calculated over a years time up until the late 2010 date. If the pumps you use aren't marked, contact a district EPA office and they will contact the vendor. As for possible adverse effects in using the new fuel, a local diesel repair shop has seen failures of fuel filter seals in older Powerstrokes, and injection pumps in Cummins that they attribute to the new fuel. GM's Duramax seems unaffected at least for now. Just some more info to add to the confusion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


There are a couple of errors in this response. First and most important is that there can be no mixing of LSD with ULSD at the retial tank/ pumps. The 07 engines require S15. The 80% is the requirement that refiners production must meet now at the gate but they are allowed to degrade it up to certain limits and sell as LSD until 2010. The other issue is that it is not the injector pump on Cummins but the lift pump that has shown problems on older engines and Cummins issued a bulletin covering this in August of 2005. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll stand corrected on the lift pump issue, but I'm repeating what an official at EPA told me. I could have misunderstood what he told me, but your explanation makes more sense.
__________________
2005 Mountaineer 298RLS & 2003 Chevrolet Silverado Crew Cab 2500HD Duramax/Allison
Stylin' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2006, 12:05 PM   #20
Member
 
Stylin''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wind Lake, WI
Posts: 79
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ecker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stylin':
There seems to be much confusion over the new fuel and regulations. After an extended conversation with someone at the EPA, I was told that the new fuel had to be sold exclusively for onroad use nationwide sometime in late 2010. Both fuels can legally be sold and used up to that time, but the pumps have to be marked either LSD or ULSD effective 6/1/06. Right. Violations occur if pumps aren't marked, or if they are marked incorrectly. Pumps that are marked ULSD can dispense a mixture of up to 20% LSD calculated over a years time up until the late 2010 date. If the pumps you use aren't marked, contact a district EPA office and they will contact the vendor. As for possible adverse effects in using the new fuel, a local diesel repair shop has seen failures of fuel filter seals in older Powerstrokes, and injection pumps in Cummins that they attribute to the new fuel. GM's Duramax seems unaffected at least for now. Just some more info to add to the confusion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


There are a couple of errors in this response. First and most important is that there can be no mixing of LSD with ULSD at the retial tank/ pumps. The 07 engines require S15. The 80% is the requirement that refiners production must meet now at the gate but they are allowed to degrade it up to certain limits and sell as LSD until 2010. The other issue is that it is not the injector pump on Cummins but the lift pump that has shown problems on older engines and Cummins issued a bulletin covering this in August of 2005. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm trying to clarify my remarks. There can be no mixing at the pumps of LSD with ULSD in a tank when the pump is labeled ULSD, but you can mix ULSD with LSD in a pump marked LSD. And here is an explanation of the 20% rule that applies to that. This is directly from an official with the EPA.
"You got it right--if the pump is labeled ULSD it MUST be ULSD fuel. But
if a pump is labeled 500 it could be anything from 0 to 500 ppm. But
each facility, including each retail facility, has a 20% limit on how
much ULSD they receive that they can sell as 500--at retail no more than
20% of the 500 ppm fuel you sell can be fuel that was received as ULSD
(unless the station sells both types of fuel at the same time--then
there is no limit)."

I hope this clears up the confusion a little better.
__________________
2005 Mountaineer 298RLS & 2003 Chevrolet Silverado Crew Cab 2500HD Duramax/Allison
Stylin' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2006, 02:38 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Ecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 770
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stylin':
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ecker:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stylin':
:
I'm trying to clarify my remarks. There can be no mixing at the pumps of LSD with ULSD in a tank when the pump is labeled ULSD, but you can mix ULSD with LSD in a pump marked LSD. And here is an explanation of the 20% rule that applies to that. This is directly from an official with the EPA.
"You got it right--if the pump is labeled ULSD it MUST be ULSD fuel. But
if a pump is labeled 500 it could be anything from 0 to 500 ppm. But
each facility, including each retail facility, has a 20% limit on how
much ULSD they receive that they can sell as 500--at retail no more than
20% of the 500 ppm fuel you sell can be fuel that was received as ULSD
(unless the station sells both types of fuel at the same time--then
there is no limit)."

I hope this clears up the confusion a little better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As you might guess there are pages of regulations that go along with changeover and both your 80% and the one I mentioned are operative. The best part is that as mid-October over 90 % of over the highway fuel production was ULSD so the whole issue is going to die pretty quickly except for some remote spots that got exemptions until 2010. Even those are feeling pressure to not wait because their customers need ULSD and are very unhappy that their local guy is waiving the exemption at them. BTW- the refineries are generally producing S8 and the balance of the std is to cover contamination inthe logisitcs chain (pipeline, trucks, tanks, etc) The S15 regulation is going to be enforced at the retail site.
__________________
Ecker
Ecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2006, 09:17 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Tom and Patty's Avatar
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,554
I find the lift pump issue interesting. Calif has had USLD I believe since August. In mid October we relpaced our lift pump on our 45K miles '00 ISC because it was starting to leak. Coincidence?
__________________
Tom, Patty, Hannah "The Big Dog" and Abby Kat, Indianapolis, Indiana 2000 Alpine 36' FDS 72232, 2005 Blue Bird M450 LXI Our Photos
"We live out in our old van. Travel all across this land. Drive until the city lights dissolve into a country sky, just me and you - hand in hand." Zac Brown Band
Tom and Patty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2006, 02:44 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Citrus Co, FL
Posts: 173
I had to replace the o-rings on the fuel filter assembly after a few tanks of S15. This is quite common on the 7.3 PSD, check out the forums on the DieselStop: http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php...&Board=73drivetrain1

Mike
__________________
2002 Holiday Rambler Presidential 5th wheel, 2002 Dodge 3500 dually Cummins - SOLD

2012 Thor Freedom Elite 28Z
Muncie_6spd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2006, 10:18 AM   #24
Member
 
Stylin''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wind Lake, WI
Posts: 79
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom and Patty:
I find the lift pump issue interesting. Calif has had USLD I believe since August. In mid October we relpaced our lift pump on our 45K miles '00 ISC because it was starting to leak. Coincidence? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The short answer is starting to look like yes.
__________________
2005 Mountaineer 298RLS & 2003 Chevrolet Silverado Crew Cab 2500HD Duramax/Allison
Stylin' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2006, 12:33 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Ecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 770
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stylin':
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom and Patty:
I find the lift pump issue interesting. Calif has had USLD I believe since August. In mid October we relpaced our lift pump on our 45K miles '00 ISC because it was starting to leak. Coincidence? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The short answer is starting to look like yes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cummins* Communication on Lift Pump Failures/ULSD
12/05/2006


*Customer Assistance Center
Cummins, Inc.
Columbus, Indiana, USA

The alert that we sent to the field related to possible fuel system leaks has so far proven to be unneeded.

We were concerned that some early leaks we saw, especially related to PT fuel pumps, might portend more leaks but this has not happened.

We have always had the odd fuel leak and this still occurs.

If a pump fails during warranty we will replace it.

We did recall early ISB engines with VP44 pumps installed in emergency vehicles, for lift pump replacement, with a new pump that incorporates a bypass circuit. We did this so that lift pump failure would have less chance of stopping the engine and stranding an emergency vehicle. This does not extend to non-emergency vehicles.

Lift pump failures that precipitated the recall were not related to leaks or low or ultralow sulfur fuels.

There are many rumors circulating about the effects of sulfur being in diesel fuel or sulfur being taken out of diesel fuel. Diesel fuel without sulfur is just as good, in all respects except one, when compared with today's fuels with sulfur.

Diesel fuel, in the United States, must for the first time meet a lubricity standard. The producers adjust the lubricity before they distribute the fuel. No further additives are needed to ensure proper fuel system lubrication.

The only negative effect of taking sulfur out of fuel is that the fuel becomes more expensive, somewhat negating the inherent cost advantage of running diesel engines when compared to other fuels. As we are certain you know, sulfur doesn't jump out of the fuel on command. It has to be removed using specialized equipment and chemical processes that add to the expense of producing the fuel.

We have seen a very few instances where the reduced aromatic content of the fuel has resulted in slight leaks from fuel systems. This is not expected to be an issue with many engines.

Basically the change to new fuel should be pretty easy for folks with the engines built prior to 2007 and for customers with the engines built in 2007 it will be necessary, for the short time it takes fuel stations to consume the remainder of the old fuel (maybe a month or two), to be certain they are not fueling with the older fuel.

There is an effect on diesel engines from the use of low or no sulfur fuel which we expect to be positive. The blowby gasses that normally pass through the engine crankcase will contain less or none of the chemically reactive sulfur and its compounds. This will tend to keep the engine oil cleaner during operation and allow important engine components like bushings, bearings and piston rings to live longer.

Diesel fuels containing sulfur or no sulfur each have the same specific heat, about 20,000 BTUs per pound. For that reason they give the same amounts of work for the same amount of fuel. That means the fuel economy per gallon will not be affected.

Over the years we have seen fuel economy decrease, somewhat, as diesel engine designs have been modified to meet the lower NOX limits imposed by government. This has been totally unrelated to sulfur in the fuel.

With lower sulfur fuels it is possible that some exhaust after treatment devices (catalytic converters) may be used to better effect, making it possible to further decrease harmful exhaust emissions.

If you use diesel fuel that does not meet the new federal low sulfur requirements that are going into effect for 2007, in a 2007 vehicle that requires the new fuel, it will produce particulate matter that will cause rapid plugging of the exhaust particulate trap. We don't anticipate producing engines for such vehicles until 2007.



Note – this communication has been edited to remove personal and/or non-relevant material from the opening and closing. Nothing has been altered in the portion included. The alert mentioned in the opening sentence was the Bulletin issued in August 2005.
__________________
Ecker
Ecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2006, 02:43 AM   #26
Member
 
Stylin''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wind Lake, WI
Posts: 79
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stylin':
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom and Patty:
I find the lift pump issue interesting. Calif has had USLD I believe since August. In mid October we relpaced our lift pump on our 45K miles '00 ISC because it was starting to leak. Coincidence? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The short answer is starting to look like yes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oops! So the short answer should have been maybe? Or no?
__________________
2005 Mountaineer 298RLS & 2003 Chevrolet Silverado Crew Cab 2500HD Duramax/Allison
Stylin' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2006, 05:35 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Ray,IN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 30,651
Note the discrepancies between the Cummins article and the Chevron position.
__________________
2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG 11B5MX,Infantry retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA." My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy
Ray,IN is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2006, 11:08 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
Wallaby Dan's Avatar
 
Vintage RV Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,241
Hi, ok I have to ask the 60 million dollar question, Us older trucks will"
a}start leaking fuel all over the highway
b}start leaking oil or burning oil-on units over 100,000 + thousand miles
c}Run away and blow-up whth the usially loud Bang!
Did I miss anything?
__________________
1991 1500 Chevy Pickup
1994 5th wheel 30 foot trailer
I'm lost. I've gone to look for me. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait.
Wallaby Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mixing LOW Sulpher w. ULTRA LOW Chickadee Newmar Owner's Forum 16 10-15-2008 05:33 AM
New low-Sulphur Diesel Fuel--Impact on older Diesel Engines Uncle Ben MH-General Discussions & Problems 7 01-01-2008 07:17 PM
Diesel owners and Ultra Low Sulpher Diesel Fuel CyberVet65 Just Conversation 5 02-03-2007 08:31 AM
Ultra Low sulpher diesel experience DHoman Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 11 07-26-2006 07:27 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.