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Old 04-22-2012, 07:19 AM   #15
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Thanks for answering!

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Originally Posted by IWillRVToo View Post
A crew cab pickup has lots of dry, secure storage and you can tow either type of RV.
A Suburban = more inside space = TT.
Are you taking - canoe, kayaks, bikes, scooters, lots of tools, etc? Maybe a pickup is best.
A low profile TT (like ours ) will be easier to tow on the smaller highways and side roads that we plan to travel. Some TT's are pretty tall and Fivers are generally even taller.

We ended up getting a Ford F-150 with a 5.4 triton engine. The TT we're going with is an Outback Sydney be Keystone, should do the trick. We are beginners , so we'll upgrade to something bigger and better, as I know we are going to love RV'ing....Thank You, Happy Trails!!!!
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:41 AM   #16
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We ended up getting a Ford F-150 with a 5.4 triton engine. The TT we're going with is an Outback Sydney be Keystone, should do the trick.
Then you didn't read what folks were telling you in this thread. If your used F-150 doesn't have 7-lug 17" wheels and 3.73 axle ratio (included in the heavy duty payload pkg), then you will probably be overloaded with a 2012 Outback TT. Although the Keystone hype calls them "super lite", their probable wet and loaded weight ranges from 7,550 to 9,000 pounds, with wet and loaded hitch weight of 900 to 1100 pounds. That's too much trailer for most F-150s with 5.4L engine.

So be sure to weigh the wet and loaded rig on a CAT scale when on the road, so you'll know how much overloaded you are.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:48 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
For estimating purposes, use the GVWR of the trailer as the probable wet and loaded weight of the trailer in the middle of your third long RV trip. "Stuff" tends to accumulate as you go on down the road.
This is often valid, but for some units, it will give you a much more conservative estimate than you really need. When you see a 30' TT (Puma 26-FBSS e.g.) with a dry weight of 4,662 and a GVWR of 10,865, it is hard to imagine loading over 4,600 lbs of stuff into a trailer of that size. in cases like this it could be reasonable to estimate 1,000 lbs. less than the GVWR.

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Old 04-23-2012, 03:10 AM   #18
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Then you didn't read what folks were telling you in this thread. If your used F-150 doesn't have 7-lug 17" wheels and 3.73 axle ratio (included in the heavy duty payload pkg), then you will probably be overloaded with a 2012 Outback TT. Although the Keystone hype calls them "super lite", their probable wet and loaded weight ranges from 7,550 to 9,000 pounds, with wet and loaded hitch weight of 900 to 1100 pounds. That's too much trailer for most F-150s with 5.4L engine.

So be sure to weigh the wet and loaded rig on a CAT scale when on the road, so you'll know how much overloaded you are.
It has 18" wheels with a 4.10 Axle ratio, max 9,000 hauling and combined weight of 14,750. The trailer we are getting has a wet and loaded weight of 7500. Hitch weight 1100 lbs. Why would't this work?
I really appreciate your input, thank you!
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:28 AM   #19
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It has 18" wheels with a 4.10 Axle ratio, max 9,000 hauling and combined weight of 14,750. The trailer we are getting has a wet and loaded weight of 7500. Hitch weight 1100 lbs. Why would't this work?
Because the 9,000 tow rating assumes nothing is in the truck but a skinny driver. It ignores GVWR, which is probably the limiter on an F-150 that doesn't have the HD payload pkg. (With 18" tires, you don't have the HD payload pkg.)

The 14,750 GCWR indicates how much weight the truck can pull up a reasonable grade at a reasonable speed without burning something up, but it does not consider GVWR of the tow vehicle, so it ignores hitch weight. And hitch weight (derived from GVWR) is probably the actual limiter of how much trailer you can tow without being overloaded.

Also, the 14,750 GCWR minus the 9,000 tow rating tells you that when computing the tow rating Ford assumed your wet and loaded truck weighs only 5,750 pounds. As the CAT scale will prove, your wet and loaded truck weighs a lot more than 5,750.

Hitch weight of an Outback TT will be about 12 percent of wet and loaded trailer weight. For a 7,500 pound properly loaded TT, hitch weight should be about 900 pounds.

So load the pickup with everything that will be in it when towing, including driver, family, pets, tools, weight-distributing shank and ball mount, and anything else what will in the truck. Drive to a truckstop that has a CAT scale and fill up with gas. Then weigh the wet and loaded truck. Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded truck from the GVWR and the answer is the max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded. If the max hitch weight your F-150 can have is less than 900 pounds, then you'll probably be overloaded when on the road.
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:01 AM   #20
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I'm a motorhomer too but was wondering about the driveability of the drw around town. I think most of the time (even full-timers) use their pickups for transportation- not towing. Unless you really needed the drw-don't you think the single would be more practical? (General question for everyone)
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Old 04-23-2012, 11:29 AM   #21
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Unless you really needed the drw-don't you think the single would be more practical?
The key to that question is "needed". Even the toughest so-called one ton SRW cannot tow a 5er that grosses more than about 16,000 pounds without being overloaded. And many one-ton SRWs are overloaded with any 5er or gooseneck that grosses more than about 12,000 pounds. If your trailer will overload your SRW tow vehicle, then a DRW is "needed".

If a DRW is not needed for handling the weight of the trailer, then only a small percentage of RVers will buy the DRW anyway, to get the improved stability that the DRW has when towing any trailer over about 10,000 pounds.

There are some disadvantages to the DRW. Mainly you can't go though most bank drive-thru tellers, and you often have to park out in the back of the parking lot at Wal-Mart. There many parking garages you dare not enter, and if you have a garage with ordinary 8' wide doors, you have to be very careful when entering and exiting the garage. But if you need the DRW to keep from exceeding the GVWR or GCWR of your tow vehicle, then those minor inconveniences are no long important compared to being safe on the highways you share with my grandkids and great-grandkids.
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:16 PM   #22
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SmokeyWren,

Thanks for the reply-agreed on all counts. This would make me consider a TT over a fiver if I was in the market for a towable.
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:53 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren

The key to that question is "needed". Even the toughest so-called one ton SRW cannot tow a 5er that grosses more than about 16,000 pounds without being overloaded. And many one-ton SRWs are overloaded with any 5er or gooseneck that grosses more than about 12,000 pounds. If your trailer will overload your SRW tow vehicle, then a DRW is "needed".

If a DRW is not needed for handling the weight of the trailer, then only a small percentage of RVers will buy the DRW anyway, to get the improved stability that the DRW has when towing any trailer over about 10,000 pounds.

There are some disadvantages to the DRW. Mainly you can't go though most bank drive-thru tellers, and you often have to park out in the back of the parking lot at Wal-Mart. There many parking garages you dare not enter, and if you have a garage with ordinary 8' wide doors, you have to be very careful when entering and exiting the garage. But if you need the DRW to keep from exceeding the GVWR or GCWR of your tow vehicle, then those minor inconveniences are no long important compared to being safe on the highways you share with my grandkids and great-grandkids.
As a driver of a ram 2500 crew cab long bed I would like to add that the truck is so long usually park in the back row of walmart anyhow because spots are hard to get into sometimes. Also trucks are tall so have to avoid some parking garages anyways. And also its just easier to walk into the bank because most of them are tight even with a swr and the things that send the money in are way lower then the truck sits. Finally the fenders on a drw are not any wider than the mirrors
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Old 04-24-2012, 06:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by SmokeyWren View Post
The key to that question is "needed". Even the toughest so-called one ton SRW cannot tow a 5er that grosses more than about 16,000 pounds without being overloaded. And many one-ton SRWs are overloaded with any 5er or gooseneck that grosses more than about 12,000 pounds. If your trailer will overload your SRW tow vehicle, then a DRW is "needed".

If a DRW is not needed for handling the weight of the trailer, then only a small percentage of RVers will buy the DRW anyway, to get the improved stability that the DRW has when towing any trailer over about 10,000 pounds.

There are some disadvantages to the DRW. Mainly you can't go though most bank drive-thru tellers, and you often have to park out in the back of the parking lot at Wal-Mart. There many parking garages you dare not enter, and if you have a garage with ordinary 8' wide doors, you have to be very careful when entering and exiting the garage. But if you need the DRW to keep from exceeding the GVWR or GCWR of your tow vehicle, then those minor inconveniences are no long important compared to being safe on the highways you share with my grandkids and great-grandkids.
Hi Smokeywren, I really thank you for all your information, it helps temendosly! I will go and weight the truck and get bwack as to what the weight is, now I'm curious. I certainly want to be safe and not take any chances. Maybe I will have to look into getting a smaller trailer since I haven't bought it yet! I will keep you posted! Thank You!
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:42 AM   #25
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OK so....yes....I finally got the math on this.

Not very happy with the salesman that sold us the truck but he was nice enough to keep an eye out for a 250 to trade it in or we will just go with a 26-28' trailer. I guess a 5th wheel would be out of the question? What would be the difference in weight on the 5th wheel verses travel trailer. Does it beat up the suspension more with a 5th wheel and could the for handel a 5th wheel?
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:53 AM   #26
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Hi, You have been so kind to help with all yur information!!!! It has been a great help! I guess what we are searching for now is a 26-28' TT another question? Should the hitch be a weight distribution hitch? What kind of hitch would you sugest? (I had comented on a 5th wheel before , but guess that is out of the question?) I don't have a CAT Scale close by? Your a great person, thank You so very much!
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:17 AM   #27
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You obviously have all the technical information you need from this thread to make the best decision for your set-up, it's all great information.

Before we purchased our motorhome, we had a 28' Outback that we pulled with a '10 F-150 SCREW FX4 5.4L blah, blah, blah...it pulled the travel trailer beautifully, either with or without a weight distribution hitch, however I would recommend a wd hitch with whatever travel trailer set-up you use. I would not hesitate to pull the 28' trailer with the F150 anywhere and we did look at a couple of 30' tt's before we went with the motorhome and it pushed the wieghts to the edge and past when loaded for the F150, so if you love your truck stay at the 28' length.

In regards to the Outback, we loved ours...it provided almost six years of great fun before we traded it in...very dependable, very few problems of any type, very comfortable for two people (we often had four and it was a little cramped), interior components held up well (except for plastic kitchen faucet) and still looked good even after being stored outside all those six years...we ended up getting $10k intrade for it, so I would not hesitate buying another Outback...the new one's are very slick!
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:11 AM   #28
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I guess a 5th wheel would be out of the question? What would be the difference in weight on the 5th wheel verses travel trailer.
First of all, they don't make many "small" fifth wheel RVs. The smallest has a GVWR of about 8,000 pounds.

The difference in an 8,000 pound TT and an 8,000 pound 5er is hitch weight. Estimate the TT hitch weight at 12 percent of trailer weight, but estimate hitch weight of a 5er as 17 percent of trailer weight. So for an 8,000 pound trailer, TT hitch weight will be about 960 pounds and 5er hitch weight will be about 1360 pounds. Very few F-150s can tow an 8,000 pound TT without being overloaded, so an 8,000 pound 5er should be out of the question.

For an F-250, it depends. Before 2005 model year they had only 8,800 pounds GVWR. My '99.5 F-250 CrewCab diesel 4x2 was overloaded with an 8,000-pound 5er. Beginning with 2005 model year, they had 10,000 pounds GVWR. So a 2005-up F-250 can handle an 8,000-pound 5er without being overloaded. But not much more than an 8,000-pound 5er. If the trailer you can't live without has a GVWR of 10,000 pounds to about 12,000 pounds, then you need an F-350 with single rear wheels (SRW) to tow it without being overloaded.

Quote:
Does it beat up the suspension more with a 5th wheel and could the for handel a 5th wheel?
5ers don't beat up the truck any more than a TT, but it's much easier to overload the tow vehicle with a 5er because of the increased hitch weight.

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Should the hitch be a weight distribution hitch?
For a TT, definitely. Almost all knowledgable RV folks say you need a weight distributing and sway controlling hitch for any trailer that weighs more than about 5,000 pounds. And many lower that to 3,500 pounds.

Quote:
What kind of hitch would you sugest?
There are two basic choices. Ordinary WD hitches with sway control that cost less than $1,000, and the really good ones that eliminate sway for over $2,000.

Right now I have one of the cheap ones that works good as long as I don't get into extreme conditions. It's a Reese Strait-Line dual-cam.
Strait-Line Weight Distribution with Sway Control - Trunnion Bar - 10,000 lbs GTW, 800 lbs TW Reese Weight Distribution RP66073

When shopping for a WD hitch, ignore the GTW rating and get enough hitch weight capacity to handle 15% of your trailers GVWR. IOW, if your hitch weight could exceed 800 pounds, then don't buy a hitch with a max hitch weight capacity of 800 pounds.

My hitch is left over from use on my cargo trailer, for which 800 pounds max hitch weight was appropriate. But for my new TT, hitch weight could be a bit over 800 pounds when loaded for bear. So I'm saving for a ProPride that costs over $2,000. It's the best on the market right now.
Trailer Sway Control Hitch Guaranteed to Eliminate Trailer Sway - ProPride 3P
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