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Old 06-05-2016, 10:13 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by TwelveVolt View Post
Take a pneumatic piston, open it's control ports (valves) to freely allow air in or out., and move the rod to a position where there is 2 inches of air in the chamber. Seal the ports. The pressure in the cylinder now matches the ambient pressure in the room, lets say 14 psi. Mechanically push the rod in so that the chamber size is reduced from 2 inches to 1 inch. The same number of air molecules are in the chamber, but now they are contained in half the volume. The pressure is doubled to 28 psi.
Now mechanically pull the rod so that the chamber is 4 inches long. Same number of air molecules, same ratio of nitrogen to oxygen to carbon dioxide etc., but in twice the volume. The pressure is now 7 psi. There is now less air (fewer molecules) per cubic inch in the chamber.
As stated, with the exception of a turbo boosting intake air pressure, there is less air per cubic inch at altitude than at sea level. Absolute air pressure at 4000 feet is about 12.7 psia versus 14.7 at sea level.
I wont disagree about the density of the air (barometric pressures are lower with elevation), but that has nothing to do with what Mekanic said was the difference in driving the grades. As I said, unless you are relying on the engine to actively reduce your speed, the density of the air has no impact on cooling the engine or brakes. In fact, I pointed out that the air would be cooler at 12,000' than it would be at 3,000' to compensate for that.

The way you would drive a 10% grade for five miles in the west is no different than what you would do in the east with a 10% grade for five miles. That was my point. Someone tried to indicate that you drive them differently or that they didn't exist here. 10% is 10% regardless of where it is.

Every year there are people that hike up 6,288' Mt Washington in New Hampshire and get injured because they probably figured that they were only climbing a 6,000' mountain and places like Denver are nearly at the altitude so how bad could it be? They probably weren't expecting the worst weather in the world as the top 2,000' is above treeline. Similarly, if you don't use the same precautions that you do when climbing or descending similar grades regardless of where you are, you will suffer the consequences.
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Old 06-05-2016, 10:53 AM   #72
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I'm so happy that I am not the only one that will argue about nearly anything and hijack a thread.
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Old 06-05-2016, 02:56 PM   #73
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I'm so happy that I am not the only one that will argue about nearly anything and hijack a thread.
I don't know if you meant that for me but I don't see any hijacking...the topic is mountain driving 101. It doesn't say mountain driving 101 in the Rockies meaning that the same principal apply no matter where the mountain is.

I, for one, have benefited from what people have brought to the conversation but just wanted to clarify why someone would think that driving a 10% grade in the Rockies is any different than the same grade in east. It's not hijacking if you stay on the topic of the thread.
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Old 06-05-2016, 06:57 PM   #74
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I'm surprised no one is aware of water cooled brakes.
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Old 06-06-2016, 08:54 PM   #75
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I'm surprised no one is aware of water cooled brakes.

Need to get me a set of those!!! Then try them out on the Ultimate Ike Challenge with 15k loaded into my trailer.
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Old 06-16-2016, 04:31 PM   #76
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https://rv-roadtrips.thefuntimesguid...in_driving.php
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Old 06-23-2016, 05:48 PM   #77
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We did 89a just a year ago this April (by accident). Yes scenic, but I didn't get to see much as I spent time watching the back end of my TT on several of the corners (joke). We will know better next time and take the freeway and cut over. We had finally made it to the bottom at Sedona and sat in traffic for almost 45 minutes and took us almost that long to get through town. We did not know at the time that it was part of UT and CA spring breaks. Never really able to see the red rock they are famous for.


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Thank you for that VERY helpful info. We will be leaving Flagstaff early and have to be in Phoenix by 1pm. Hopefully that's doable, even with the terrain. We were planning on doing the Oak Creek Canyon scenic drive (route 89a) between Flagstaff and Sedona on the way, but I'm thinking that might not be possible while pulling the camper, given that it ascends 4500 feet to the top of the Magollon Rim. The drive is only 14 miles long, but still...
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Old 08-18-2016, 03:26 PM   #78
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Alright, I just did my first west coast trip. Going through Alberta, BC, and Washington state, we hit a lot of challenging descents. The worst were 12% for 20 km, 19% for 5 km. After reading this forum, I checked the brakes and tires at the bottom - cool as a cucumber.

Method:

- Start slow
- Gear low
- If speed gets too high, brake strong and brief to bring it back down 10 kph.

Oh ya, and these were very curvy, squirrely mountain roads !!
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Old 08-18-2016, 03:52 PM   #79
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I have never seen a 12% grade on a public road, let alone 19%, nor would I take my coach on either.

Specifically where we're these?
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Old 08-18-2016, 03:59 PM   #80
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I'm surprised no one is aware of water cooled brakes.
Some of the log trucks used them before the government pretty much outlawed logging arundel here.
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Old 08-18-2016, 04:10 PM   #81
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I have never seen a 12% grade on a public road, let alone 19%, nor would I take my coach on either.

Specifically where we're these?
Don't know where the OP was, but there are a couple of 14% grades on Hwy 12 near Boulder, Utah. It does get your attention
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Old 08-18-2016, 04:30 PM   #82
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I have never seen a 12% grade on a public road, let alone 19%, nor would I take my coach on either.

Specifically where we're these?
We went up a 12% grade in the white Mountains of new Hampshire last summer. It was VERY steep. Luckily it was only 3/4 of a mile or so. I hit at 55 and topped about 30. Boy I was glad it wasn't any longer than it was. I would hate to see 19%!!!

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Old 08-18-2016, 07:04 PM   #83
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Sonora Pass over the Sierra Nevada, the highest pass over those mountains, in CA has a couple of 26% grades. I went over it this past June, truck and travel trailer. It was beautiful up there, very little traffic, and I want to go back and camp up there for a week or so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonora_Pass
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Old 09-19-2016, 10:34 AM   #84
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Now What ?!?!?
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