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Old 07-20-2014, 04:34 PM   #1
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My dad is convinced! Help!

My dad's current set up is a 2000 chevy 2500 silverado with 6.0 3.73 long bed auto. I can't think of the name of the camper but its a 2012 29ft 5th wheel and unloaded it is 8500lbs. I figure loaded its about 10k since they usually only stay at most 3 nights within 250 miles and never with their tanks full and they never will. Anyway that truck does get the job done and within its safety limits (barely), but now he's convinced that he can go to a 2010+ half ton pickup 4x4 and still tow safely. I know the newer half tons have the go power but do they have the whoa power for a 10k 5th wheel? I see that some can tow over 11k but I'm convinced that's with a flat trailer with no drag. He's talked himself out of a diesel because his current daily commute is maybe 8 miles and he just retired so that 8 miles will be reduced to possibly 0 since he lives on a golf course and finally has the time to play.
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Old 07-20-2014, 04:50 PM   #2
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Will not work. He will be overloaded on all counts.
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Old 07-20-2014, 05:27 PM   #3
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Yes he will be overloaded. No matter what 1/2 ton he gets and no matter what he does to it. A 1/2 ton is a nice truck for the right TT but a 29 ft fiver is way over. Better to keep the old truck for towing and get the Vette he always wanted.
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Old 07-20-2014, 05:47 PM   #4
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It might be able to tow 11k (but I doubt it), but a 1500 will not be able to handle the pin weight of that fifth wheel.
The pin weight is the killer - not the towing capacity.
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Old 07-20-2014, 06:24 PM   #5
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Well he seems to think that a 4x4 has heavier duty equipment
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Old 07-20-2014, 06:33 PM   #6
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Well he seems to think that a 4x4 has heavier duty equipment
Just more expensive parts to break. Same frame and rear axle.
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Old 07-20-2014, 06:57 PM   #7
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Just more expensive parts to break. Same frame and rear axle.
And more weight to boot, which lessens his cargo capacity even more.
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Old 07-20-2014, 07:21 PM   #8
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I'd keep the old truck over a newer 1/2 ton.
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Old 07-20-2014, 08:22 PM   #9
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He will regret going to a lighter truck but it is his nickel. We can only hope he realizes this before he kills himself or someone else.
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Old 07-20-2014, 08:40 PM   #10
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Even Dad's 2500 is probably overloaded with a 10k 5er. He's probably never weighed the wet and loaded rig. He thinks if the truck can pull the trailer, then all is well.

But all is not well. Weigh the wet and loaded rig on a CAT scale, with a full tank of gas, driver, passenger(s), tools, and wet and loaded trailer hooked up to the 5er hitch. Add the front and rear axle weights, and compare to the GVWR of the truck. If the weight on the front and rear axles exceeds the GVWR of the truck, he is not towing safely. He's overloaded, and overloaded is not safe.

I towed my 8,000-pound wet and loaded 5er with my F-150. One trip and one way only because I was severely overloaded. 880 pounds over the GVWR of the truck. 780 pounds over the GCWR of the truck. 830 pounds over the rear GAWR of the truck. And that's with a 2012 F-250 EcoBoost with the towing package. Granted, Ford makes a heavier duty payload package, but even that would not be enough for a 10k 5er.
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Old 07-20-2014, 09:31 PM   #11
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Dads giving up a much heavier duty 2500 truck than the 1500 4x4. I have both and they do not compare. Not even close.

The 2500 has a full floating 14 bolt rear 10.5" axle. GM rates it at 6084 RAWR with the 2500 smaller tires/wheels and spring pack. One ton trucks use the same 14 bolt but with higher rated tires/wheels and spring packs. The 2500 with the 6.0 engine most likely is GM C6P HD chassis used on the one ton also.
Front axle 4400-4600 ?? FAWR for 10400 lbs of braking performance vs the 1500 4x4 4000 RAWR and 3900 FAWR = 7900 lb of braking performance.

The 1500 will be over loaded on the rear tires/wheels and spring pack with that size 5er.
Even if he mods the truck to carry more weight he won't be happy pulling that much weight with a 5.3 1500 truck.
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Old 07-21-2014, 08:18 AM   #12
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Tell him you are too young to lose your parents. Offer to move the trailer for him when he goes camping. Offer to let him use your truck if he insists on towing with too small a truck. Ask him if his life insurance is paid up! Offer to take out life insurance on him!

Applaud you for being concerned about your parents.
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Old 07-21-2014, 08:28 AM   #13
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I pull a 4k lbs boat with my 1500 Chevy w/ the 5.3 and it lacks the power and braking ability even with electric trailer brakes. So, my $.02 worth is that even if not overloaded he will not be happy with the set up.
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Old 07-21-2014, 09:02 AM   #14
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... I see that some (half-ton pickups) can tow over 11k but I'm convinced that's with a flat trailer with no drag.
No, it's with a wagon-style trailer with almost no hitch weight. Such as a farmer's grain trailer or cotton trailer. But not a tandem-axle RV trailer.

Ford makes one of those heavy duty half-ton pickups with a tow rating of 11,000 pounds: F-150 with Max Tow package has a tow rating of 11,000 pounds. But you cannot tow a 11,000-pound tandem axle fifth wheel RV trailer that can have more than 2,200 pounds of hitch weight, without overloading the suspension and brakes of the tow vehicle. And you cannot even tow a 9,000 pound fifth-wheel tandem axle fifth wheel RV trailer that can have more than 1,800 pounds of hitch weight, without overloading the suspension and brakes of the tow vehicle.

Can it pull that much tandem-axle RV trailer? Yes. With the EcoBoost engine and 3.73 axle ratio that's required with the Max Tow package, you can pull the heavy trailer, even a tall wide fifth wheel RV trailer with lots of drag. But you'll overload the suspension and brakes of the tow vehicle. A half-ton pickup simply does not have the payload capacity to haul the hitch weight of that much RV trailer without being overloaded.

Ford, GM, Ram, Toyota and Nissan all state that you should NEVER exceed the GVWR of their pickups. But that's in the fine print, and at the same time they loudly proclaim the tow ratings of their pickups. You have to have more than two brain cells to see that the tow ratings are overstated because of invalid assumptions for 99% of all RVers, and that GVWR is the actual limiter as to how much trailer you can tow without being overloaded.

Tow ratings are calculated using the GCWR (pulling capability) and ignoring the GVWR (weight hauling capability) of the tow vehicle. Tow ratings assume an empty new truck with no options and nothing in it but a skinny driver. But nobody going camping with an RV trailer meets those conditions.
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