Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-31-2013, 03:02 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2
Need Advice From The Experts

Hi everyone. I'm new here and this is my 1st post. I've had 2 different Class A motor homes but this is my 1st 5th wheel and I see I have alot to learn. My truck is a 2002 that has been babied since I bought it new. It's a Silverado 1500, 5.3, 4wd extended cab with hd towing package. The build sheet says 6,400 lb gvw,3.73 rear axle, and tow haul mode. We purchased a 2008 Jayco Eagle Super Lite FW 27.5RKS. Specs say UVW-6,940, dry hitch weight- 1,290, GVWR- 8,750. When I picked it up about an hour away from home my truck pulled it great. I had no problems with sway, brake controller worked great, 16 thou.lb reese slider hitch. But what I am concerend with is this a safe setup? I hate to get rid of my truck and I have been pricing 2500 HD's but here in middle TN and surrouding areas the prices are so high I can't pay the prices they are wanting. Also could you recommend the truck I might need and if I do need to upgrade I want to go with a diesel, and an area where you can get a fair price.
Thanks!
__________________

__________________
DRogers
Zander is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-31-2013, 09:29 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
onechaddude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,542
Hi zander and welcome to the forum. I am by no means an expert but it sounds like to me you may be slightly overloaded. The only way to know for sure is load up for trip and take it to scales. The weight you are pulling will probably be within the mfrs tow rating but you will be probably over the gvwr of the truck as most half tons cannot handle lots of tongue weight. I would weigh it and you'll know for sure. Good luck
Chad
__________________

__________________
onechaddude is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 12:19 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
caissiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,312
Pulling a 27ft 5th wheel with a 1/2 ton has been done since the 80s and even more today.
Limitations are.
1. Engine will heat up if exhaust not improved. Same for 2500.
2. Transmission temperatures need to be monitored closely. Same for 2500.
3. Straight axles with light differential will need monitoring. 2500 has safer floating axles.
4 1500 has 1000lbs advantage compared to 2500 for gas Service.
5 2500 has much larger capacity tires and brakes. 1500 rims have limited air pressure so stability may be affected.
__________________
Barbara and Laurent, Hartland Big Country 3500RL. 39 ft long and 15500 GVW.
2005 Ford F250 SD, XL F250 4x4, Long Box, 6.0L Diesel, 6 Speed Stick, Hypertech Max Energy for Fuel mileage of 21 MPusG empty, 12.6 MPusG pulling the BC. ScangaugeII for display..
caissiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 08:47 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
jimcumminsw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oswego IL
Posts: 1,257
Zander, First welcome to the forum.
I am no expert on these matters but I am a retired structure/hydraulic engineer. So here is my take on your issue. The ½ ton truck might be able to pull on flat land most ½ ton rated 5er that are being marketed today. Would I pull one; no I would not the minimum truck size is ¾ ton HD pick-up in my humble opinion.
Now do you need to buy new truck NO! A slightly used ¾ ton pick-up truck could eliminate that high cost of dollar outlay that a new truck would be. But you will never know until you negotiate the purchase price. As an example in Nov 07 I bought new a 50,000+ 2500HD Mega Cab 6.7L Cummins diesel for under $38.500 when I was done. Do not go by MSRP on the truck price.
Now what type of truck should you buy? Will all three manufactures make a decent ¾ and 1 ton trucks only you can determine what is good for you. A Diesel truck will be able to tow better and have better cooling all-round compare to a gas engine truck. Now as far as towing weights and what a truck can do I would check out this site from Trailer –life towing guides. They rate all years and makes with their towing ability and weights.
http://www.trailerlife.com/trailer-towing-guides/
I would worry about the tire max loading, AGWR for both rear and front, the trailer GCW and the GCVW of both vehicles. The pin weight on the rear of the truck cannot exceed the tire and axle loading set forth by the manufacture in my humble opinion.
I could go on and on but most new ¾ ton HD trucks are similar to the 1 ton HD SRW trucks today except for an added leaf spring or helper, not a dually truck. Now for 2013 that has changed since the manufactures are in a towing war and have tried to outdo each other but that is another discussion.
Jim W.
__________________
Jim & Jill
Sold: 2010 318SAB Cougar:New: 2016 Cedar Creek 34RL. 2008 Dodge 6.7LCummins the original 6.7L engine, w/68RFE Auto
jimcumminsw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 10:11 AM   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
SmokeyWren's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midland County, Texas
Posts: 3,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zander View Post
. It's a Silverado 1500, 5.3, 4wd extended cab with hd towing package. The build sheet says 6,400 lb gvw,3.73 rear axle, and tow haul mode.
GVWR = 7,000
GCWR = 13,000
tow rating = 7,300
payload rating = 1590

The GVWR and GCWR are real numbers. The tow rating and payload numbers are ficticious because they assume the truck has no options and absolute nothing is in the truck but a skinny driver. The tow rating assumes the wet and loaded truck weighs only 5,700 pounds. The payload rating assumes the empty truck weighs only 5,410. But any truck scale will tell you that your wet and loaded truck weighs a lot more than 5410 or 5,700.

So ignore the tow rating and payload rating and compute your own. To do that, load the truck with whatever will be in it when towing - driver, passengers, pets, tools, jacks, bed rug, trailer hitch, etc. Drive to a truckstop that has a truck scale and fill up with gas. Then weigh the wet and loaded pickup.

Subtract the weight of the truck from 7,000 and the answer is the max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded. Hitch weight is probably your limiter as to how much trailer you can tow without being overloaded. Divide the max hitch weight by 0.186 to get the max weight of your 5er you can tow without being overloaded.

If hitch weight is not your limiter, then subtract the weight of the wet and loaded truck from 13,000 to get the max trailer weight you can tow without being overloaded. If your truck weighs 6,500, then the max trailer weight you can tow is 6,500 without exceeding the GCWR of the pickup. But your 5er will probably weigh over 8,000 pounds when wet and loaded for the road.

But if your truck weighs 6500, then your max hitch weight is 500, which translates to a max trailer weight of 3,333 pounds.

Quote:
We purchased a 2008 Jayco Eagle Super Lite FW 27.5RKS. Specs ..., GVWR- 8,750.
Hitch weight is probably your limiter on any pickup with single rear wheels. Your trailer is a 5er with 18.6% pin weight.

Quote:
But what I am concerend with is this a safe setup?
Ddouble whammy. You'll not just exceed the GVWR of your 1500 by a bunch, you'll even exceed the GCWR by a bunch. So no, your current truck is not safe when towing that trailer.

You want a tow vehicle that is not overloaded over any of the weight limits. The most likely weight limit that you will bump into first is the GVWR of the tow vehicle. So you need one that has at least 1628 pounds of unused payload capacity when loaded to the gills with people, tools, stuff, and a full tank of fuel.

A 2008 GM 2500HD has a GVWR of 9,200 pounds. Subtract 1628 hitch weight and that leaves 7572 pounds as the max weight of the truck before tying onto the trailer. That means you can't haul much in the truck when towing. More than likely you'll be overloaded with a family and normal toolbox full of tools in the truck. So I suspect the 2500HD of 2008 is not quite enough truck for that trailer.

Quote:
I hate to get rid of my truck and I have been pricing 2500 HD's but here in middle TN and surrouding areas the prices are so high I can't pay the prices they are wanting. Also could you recommend the truck I might need and if I do need to upgrade I want to go with a diesel, and an area where you can get a fair price.
The used car industry won't allow much difference is prices in various parts of the country. If prices are higher in TN than in AL, then the car haulers will be hauling cars/pickups from AL to TN.

But given that, you may want to go where a high percentage of the population drives pickups. Ranch country. Texas. Nice used pickups are high priced everywhere, but the prices may be a bit lower in areas that have lots of them for sale.

However, I just checked on the price of a pickup here in west Texas and where my daughter lives near Knoxville. Same price for a 2008 GM 2500 SC diesel 4x4 with 8' bed and the tow pkg. The diesel engine will cost you $4,800 or more extra on that pickup, compared to the exact same pickup with the 6.0L gasser. By 2008, GM had the Isusu diesel engine pretty well bulletproofed, so it should be a good choice for you. But $4,800 or more will buy a lot of gasoline.

However, a used 2008 GM 2500 will probably be overloaded with your trailer when wet and loaded for the road. You need one with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or more, and from the specs I can find the 2008 GM 2500s have only 9,200. Some of the new GM 2500s have 9,900 or 10,000 GVWR, and that's what you need. Or better yet, get a GM 3500 SRW which has well over 10,000 GVWR.

Of course, I'm a Ford fan, and any 2005-up F-250 SuperCab long bed or CrewCab with V-10 or diesel engine has a GVWR of 10,000 pounds. But better yet is the 2005-up F-350 with 11,500 GVWR.
__________________
Grumpy ole man with over 50 years towing experience. Now my heaviest trailer is a 7,000-pound enclosed cargo trailer, RV is a 5,600 pound Skyline Nomad Joey 196S, and my tow vehicle is a 2012 F-150 3.5L EcoBoost SuperCrew.
SmokeyWren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 11:42 AM   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
SmokeyWren's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Midland County, Texas
Posts: 3,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zander View Post
But what I am concerend with is this a safe setup?
Depends on your definition of "safe". My definition (and the definition used by the chassis engineers at all the automobile manufacturers) is that you should NEVER exceed any of the vehicle's weight ratings. And there are a bunch of weight ratings, including GVWR, GCWR, front and rear GAWR, tire weight ratings, wheel ratings, receiver weight ratings, and hitch weight ratings.

Tow ratings and payload ratings are not real weight ratings. They are estimates, and usually very poor estimates. Tow rating is GCWR minus the shipping weight of tow vehicle. Payload rating is the GVWR minus the shipping weight of tow vehicle. But real wet and loaded tow vehicles weight a lot more than the shipping weight, so the tow rating and payload rating are overstated.

Assuming an unmodified stock tow vehicle, the one rating weight rating that you'll probably bump into first is the GVWR of the tow vehicle. If you never exceed the GVWR, then you'll probably never exceed any of the other weight ratings of the vehicle. I know that's true of Ford pickups, and I assume it's also true of Government Motors and FIAT pickups.

So the first test is to see if the wet and loaded tow vehicle can handle the hitch weight of the wet and loaded trailer without exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle. If it can't, then that is not a "safe" rig. IMHO.
__________________
SmokeyWren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 03:56 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2
Great Information

Thanks to all that replied. A lot of great information! I wish I had found this site while I was trying to do research on 5th wheels. Maybe my wife wouldn't be upset with me right now! This is definately the best forum I've found so far and I really appreciate all the help.
__________________

__________________
DRogers
Zander is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.