RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-30-2018, 06:14 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 80
Need advice on towing a 5er without an exhaust brake

Sold our coach and we are considering purchasing a fifth wheel along with a Ram 2500 with the Cummins. After considering the overall purchase cost and probable maintenance cost for say ten years, I was thinking that maybe a 6.4 hemi may be the way to go. We do anywhere between 7000 and 10,000 miles a year. One major factor or question is, how do others tow say in the rockies without an exhaust brake. Got definitely use to the pac brake holding the 40' coach and a safe speed on every mountain/hill descend. Sure would like your in put.
__________________

timeforus is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-30-2018, 06:21 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
BuzzWolfAR's Avatar
 
Forest River Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Mountain Home, Arkansas
Posts: 779
If you are pulling 40 ft fiver, you need a 350 and if over 15000 pounds, make it a dually. I believe they all have a tow/haul option which will downshift the transmission helping maintain control.

My 350 srw, with 12,000 pound fiver is fine in the hills.
__________________

__________________
Buzz & Jo Wolf, Mountain Home, Arkansas
TV 2014 Ford F350 Lariat Diesel
Fiver 2018 Cedar Creek 29ir
BuzzWolfAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2018, 06:36 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
BFlinn181's Avatar


 
Gulf Streamers Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 19,907
Like others with a gas powered vehicle and no exhaust brake, you downshift to a lower gear to hold down speed. If you must use the brakes, apply them firmly to drop speed by 10 mph, then foot off the brake until next need to slow down 10 mph or so. I like in hilly Cincinnati and every day I see folks riding their brakes descending hills. You can tell they're riding the brakes because of the smell of overheated brakes and smoke.
__________________

Bob & Donna
'98 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager DP being pushed by a '00 Beetle TDI
BFlinn181 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2018, 06:50 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,079
I have an 18 Ram 2500 6.4-4.10 and tow 9300 lbs in the Cascades. No the Rockies but ups and downs just the same. You don't say what size 5er you're towing. JMHO but I wouldn't want to tow over 10-12,000 lbs in the mtns with my truck. Downhill is really a non factor for me. Another 3,000 lbs behind me could very well change that scenario.
The other big factor is power. You lose something 3% for every 1,000' of El change. Thats 18% @6000'. You'll be wound out way more than you might like.
In the mtns I'm in 4th or 5th 95% of the time. The other time it's 3rd and an occasional 2nd for the slower curvy steeper sections.
I came from a deisel (12 2500) and it's not totally night and day but the CTD pulled up the same mtns in 5th and occasionally 4th and it never broke a sweat.
Unless you DIY oil changes then figure on dropping $100 for on with the 6.4.
I believe the CTD goes a lot further on oil changes.
Cumminsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2018, 08:10 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 243
We went from pulling a travel trailer with Chevy Suburban 2500 8.1 big block to a 2018 Silverado 3500HD SRW Duramax. Both are great tow vehicles within their own class. In the mountains with a gasser expect to pull high rpm’s. The high revs and gear changes does wear on you. In contrast the exhaust brake on the Silverado led to my wife being much more relaxed on descents this past summer. Not that I ever pushed it too hard going down a mountain with the Burb, but with the Silverado’s exhaust brake, I feel that I have a greater sense of control and in turn a bigger safety margin.

In any case be sure to decide on a 5er before you buy your truck.
Good luck with your decision!
__________________
I don't have to have all the money in the world - just enough not to worry about it.
Yosemite77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2018, 08:40 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 278
Gas motors have whats called a compression brake. Its built into all of them.
Jshopes81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2018, 09:22 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jshopes81 View Post
Gas motors have whats called a compression brake. Its built into all of them.

Well it is called a compression brake, but it is actually a vacuum brake.
A diesel engines allow the air to flow unrestricted, and speed is controlled by the amount of fuel. With no add-ons, when you reduce the fuel, the only thing to slow the engine is friction. But they add a valve in the exhaust, to stop the flow of air slowing the engine.
Gas engines, OTOH, the speed is controlled by controlling air flow in. The air controls fuel. So with no add-on the stopped air flow slows the engine
I have often asked how much more whoa you would get out of a gas engine, compared to the same size diesel, running same speed with exhaust brake. I know without the EB, the gas would win.
ScoobyDoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2018, 09:54 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
BFlinn181's Avatar


 
Gulf Streamers Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 19,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
Well it is called a compression brake, but it is actually a vacuum brake.
A diesel engines allow the air to flow unrestricted, and speed is controlled by the amount of fuel. With no add-ons, when you reduce the fuel, the only thing to slow the engine is friction. But they add a valve in the exhaust, to stop the flow of air slowing the engine.
Gas engines, OTOH, the speed is controlled by controlling air flow in. The air controls fuel. So with no add-on the stopped air flow slows the engine
I have often asked how much more whoa you would get out of a gas engine, compared to the same size diesel, running same speed with exhaust brake. I know without the EB, the gas would win.
I agree, it's why diesel engines have to have a separate vacuum pump since the engine has no restriction on air intake.

While an exhaust or Jake brake is nice on a diesel engine, many folks tow large trailers with no extra braking on their gas pickups. Just downshift on decending grades and don't ride the brakes.
__________________

Bob & Donna
'98 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager DP being pushed by a '00 Beetle TDI
BFlinn181 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2018, 07:46 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 80
Need advice on towing a 5er without an exhaust brake

Thanks everyone for your input. Haven't decided what we'll purchase yet. Factoring in the extra cost of the diesel, cost of fuel and DEF, repairs starting at the 6 year and later, regular maintenance and so on just wondering if a gasser is a possible/feasible way to go.
timeforus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2018, 08:23 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 278
Depends on your weight being pulled. For most people diesel doesnt make sense.
Jshopes81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2018, 12:03 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 7,010
Have a 2007 3500 with CTD and tow a 14K 5vr

1st year all stock and towed thru UT, CO, WY, SD then headed down to FL
Did OK but did have to downshift and stab brakes to control downhill descents even with tow/haul on.

While in FL had a 4" Exhaust Brake installed.

No vacuum pump, just a continuous service heavy duty solenoid to close EB and large spring assist to open.

2" bypass butterfly valve to control back-pressure at 55#


Next trip thru the Rockies was night and day. Tow/Haul with Exhaust Brake and rarely had to use the service brakes and then it was just to slow for curves/switchbacks.
Roughly 22,000# and speed was controlled at 50 mph


If towing..diesel with exhaust brake IS the way to go.
__________________
2007 Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor & NUWA 5vr
FT traveling 2007 - 2014
Still DEBT Free
Old-Biscuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2018, 04:57 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
tuffr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Palm Coast Florida
Posts: 4,322
The net cost of a diesel engine is less than you think because you recover the cost when you trade or sell the truck. At least most of the initial cost. Think of the diesel engine costing $2,000 as that is what I figured when I traded my diesel truck.

I traded my 2012 diesel dually for a 2017 F-250 gas truck. I have not towed with the 2017 yet. I can tell you the modern diesel engine has gobs of power.

I sold the 5th wheel and was not using my diesel truck is why I traded it.
tuffr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2018, 01:09 AM   #13
Member
 
CincyGus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio USA
Posts: 56
I'll just throw out there that the cost of diesel fuel isn't any more expensive in my mind. My trips I now get 12-14 MPG pulling a 9500 lb 33' toy hauler when with the gasser pulling a 6000 lb 25' TT I was getting 7.5-8 MPG on good trips and 7 on hilly ones when I had the RPM's screaming up hills.

So 33% better mileage on generally 25% more expensive fuel. I know, my oil changes cost more and IF I have an engine issue, it could get expensive. That said, Diesels run a lot of miles across this country every day without issues and if maintained properly, I'll say last longer with less issues than gas engines.

Not having damaged ear drums from listening to my former V8 gasser scream at me at 5800 RPM's, having the exhaust brake going down hills, having enough power and torque to set the cruise control and the truck just climbs up whatever I point it to is worth a little extra cash out of my pocket if it ends up being so. The comfort I felt the first time I took the new trailer down a steep hill and the truck kept it at my set speed without me touching the brakes made me grin a mile wide.
__________________
2015 GMC Denali K2500, 2019 Forest River Wolfpack 23PACK15 And 2014 EZGO Golf Cart
CincyGus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2018, 12:18 PM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Anywhere in the USA
Posts: 20
If you do go with a gasser, you may want to check into a fifth wheel with disc brakes. I tow a 17,000 GVW fifth with a 08 Dodge 3500 diesel, (and yes, I know I'm overloaded). For the first two years, I had the standard drum brakes. The braking was marginal, even after being replaced and adjusted for the famous, "Lippert greasy brake fiasco." With the disc brakes, it will brake very well, even if I don't use the exhaust brake.

Gordofuchs@gmail.com
Cleveland, Ohio
__________________

gordofuchs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advice, brake, exhaust, tow, towing



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wheel Clearance on a 5er / Noob 5er help on suspension... cb1000rider 5th Wheel Discussion 7 07-13-2015 11:17 PM
Exhaust Brake: Don't Leave Home Without It I90Tom Newmar Owner's Forum 4 05-02-2015 07:57 AM
Exhaust Brake, Compression Brake, vs Turbo Brake dengraham Cummins Engines 15 09-28-2014 04:17 PM
Exhaust Brake or no Exhaust Brake mrock Class A Motorhome Discussions 64 02-22-2013 09:28 AM
Brake lights without Exhaust brake Roadking Spartan Motorhome Chassis Forum 9 06-05-2012 01:07 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.