Need Towing Advice

[bhannay]

I currently have a 2003 Ford Expedition that I tow my TT with. I'm looking to upgrade to a pick-up and 5th wheel. I've been reading quite a few sites about towing and I'm completely confused.

I'm looking at a 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500HD LTZ Z71 with a gvwr of 10K and a ft gawr of 5200 and a rr gawr of 6200 with the duramax/Allison combination. Rated to tow 17,100 with a gcwr of 24,100. I don't know the exact weight of the vehicle and I don't have the luxury of being able to take the truck and trailer to a scale. The Chevy website says the curb weight ranges between 5,717 to 6,689*lbs so figuring the heaviest weight with the hitch my wife and I and our 2 small dogs and misc. stuff I'm guessing the vehicle will weigh out at about 7200 - 7300.

We are looking at 2 different floorplans the first with a uvw of 13,535 and a gvwr of 15,500 and a pin weight of 2537.

The second has a uvw of 12,912 and a gvwr of 15,500 and a pin weight of 2,620.

My question is will this vehicle be able to tow either of the coaches legally and safely or should I be looking either for a different tow vehicle or a different coach?

[Yosemite77]

I’m also in the market for both a 5th wheel and truck. I tend to err on the safe side and so for anything over a GVWR of 14,000 I would want a 1 ton dually. I’ve read where the “line in the sand” for others is 15,000, so basically there is a gray area depending on your level of comfort.
I’m not even considering a 3/4 ton truck. The difference in cost between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton is minimal. The main difference between the two being that the 1 ton truck has an extra set of overload springs. I don’t want a dually, so my plan is to get a 1 ton SRW and a fiver with a GVWR of less than 14,000.
Hope this helps. Good luck!

[cfowler55]

Going strictly on GVWR you will probably be overloaded. 10k less your 7200 leaves 2800 for pin weight and everything else. Pin weights listed are probably for a dry vehicle. Loaded should be more in the 3000 range. It may be possible to find a more bare bones 3/4 ton that will work, but not an optioned out truck.

[tuffr2]

I used to say a 1/2 ton truck weighed 5,500 lbs and the next size up weighed 7,500 lbs. As the manufactuers are making trucks lighter so 5,200 and 7,200lbs today makes sense to me.

I would be surprised if a Chevy 3/4 ton truck weighs less than 7,200lbs.

Since a 3/4 ton and 1 ton SRW trucks take up the same realistate for a few more bucks I would get the 1 ton. The 1 ton truck will have 800 - 1,200lbs more weight it can carry.

If you use 20% pin weight for a 5th wheel you will see how quickly you will use up the capacity of a lot of trucks.

[xrated]

Pretty simple answer, to some degree. You are in 1Ton territory with either of those 5vers....based on an accepted calculation of 20% of the trailer's GVWR as pin weight. 15,500 would put you at slightly over 3000 lbs of pin, plus the hitch weight of 150-200 lbs. You've already overloaded the 3/4T truck's payload capacity with those numbers.....unless you buy a very stripped down, 2WD, regular cab with a gas motor and not a diesel. And then there is the additional weight to consider....passenger(s), tools, possibly firewood, luggage or cargo.....anything and everything that goes into the truck or in the bed of the truck. In fact, depending on how loaded up the truck is with options/etc. and whether or not it's 4x4, you may actually be very close to Dually 1Ton

[SmokeyWren]

Hi, bhannay, and and to our campfire.

Originally Posted by bhannay

I'm looking at a 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500HD LTZ Z71 with a gvwr of 10K and a ft gawr of 5200 and a rr gawr of 6200 with the duramax/Allison combination.

10k GVWR with hitch weight of about 3,100 pounds leaves only 6,900 pounds for the weight of the wet and loaded pickup.

Rated to tow 17,100 with a gcwr of 24,100.

The GCWR and tow rating are not very good indicators of the weight of a 5er you can tow without being overloaded. That will tell you the max trailer weight the drivetrain can PULL, but it doesn't address the weight the chassis can CARRY on the two axles of the tow vehicle.

The turbo-diesel drivetrain in that pickup can pull a lot heavier trailer than it can carry the hitch weight of that trailer, along with the other weight you will have in the pickup when towing.

I don't know the exact weight of the vehicle and I don't have the luxury of being able to take the truck and trailer to a scale.

Then you're going to be doing a lot of generalizing, guessing and estimating to match trailer to tow vehicle.

The Chevy website says the curb weight ranges between 5,717 to 6,689*lbs so figuring the heaviest weight with the hitch my wife and I and our 2 small dogs and misc. stuff I'm guessing the vehicle will weigh out at about 7200 - 7300.

And if you carry an adequately-stocked toolbox and heavy jack and jack stands, I'm guessing your guess is low. I'd probably use about 7,500 for the initial camping trip, then not be surprised when DW loads it up closer to 8,000 pounds for future camping trips.

We are looking at 2 different floorplans ... gvwr of 15,500 ... and a gvwr of 15,500....

Same-o, same-o. If you load the trailer to have 20% pin weight and gross trailer weight of 14,500, your pin weight will be about 2,900 pounds, plus another 200 pounds for a decent 5er hitch installed, for a total hitch weight of about 3,100 pounds.

My question is will this vehicle be able to tow either of the coaches legally and safely or should I be looking either for a different tow vehicle or a different coach?

My generalizing, guessing and estimating says you're going to be overloaded with that truck and trailer.

As others have suggested, if you like that trailer, then look for the a similar vehicle except a 3500 with single rear wheels (SRW) instead of a 2500. If the tow vehicle is a Ford, then the difference in the payload capacity is about 1,400 pounds, and I assume GM is similar. With that extra payload capacity, then you should have no problem with overloading the tow vehicle on a camping trip - provided you continue to distribute the weight in the trailer to maintain ~20% pin weight and gross trailer weight of not more than 14,500.

[Wileykid]

Originally Posted by bhannay

I currently have a 2003 Ford Expedition that I tow my TT with. I'm looking to upgrade to a pick-up and 5th wheel. I've been reading quite a few sites about towing and I'm completely confused.

I'm looking at a 2015 Chevy Silverado 2500HD LTZ Z71 with a gvwr of 10K and a ft gawr of 5200 and a rr gawr of 6200 with the duramax/Allison combination. Rated to tow 17,100 with a gcwr of 24,100. I don't know the exact weight of the vehicle and I don't have the luxury of being able to take the truck and trailer to a scale. The Chevy website says the curb weight ranges between 5,717 to 6,689*lbs so figuring the heaviest weight with the hitch my wife and I and our 2 small dogs and misc. stuff I'm guessing the vehicle will weigh out at about 7200 - 7300.

We are looking at 2 different floorplans the first with a uvw of 13,535 and a gvwr of 15,500 and a pin weight of 2537.

The second has a uvw of 12,912 and a gvwr of 15,500 and a pin weight of 2,620.

My question is will this vehicle be able to tow either of the coaches legally and safely or should I be looking either for a different tow vehicle or a different coach?

I would get the 3500 with the weights you are talking about.

I doubt you will be legal with the pin weight alone. I have a '16 2500 4x4 LT double cab with the DMax and the 10K pound GVWR. I have one of the higher weight capabilities for my truck at 2540 useful load. Or the empty weight of my truck is 7460 lbs. You are talking about a truck that should weigh 100-200 pounds more.

About the only way you will get the weight capability out of a 2500 is with a gas engine. The numbers you saw in the brochure has to be for the gas engine versions, and with those numbers, the work truck.

The 3500, even used, is usually only several hundred dollars more. The srw is the same size as the 2500, but gives you that extra weight capability. Give yourself some breathing room. You will be overweight with a 2500.

Mark

[bhannay]

Thank you for all your advice. It has been very helpful. One last question. I live in Florida and probably will not be towing out of state. Would that make a difference in towing either of these 5er's with a 3/4 ton or a 1 ton or is it still all about the weight?

[Dropthejacks]

Overweight is overweight. Doesn't matter if you are going 10 miles or 1000. If you are on the cutting edge of capacity and only going a couple miles down the road a few weekends a year, you could probably get away with a 3/4 Ton. But for the price difference, just step up to the 1 Ton SRW and call it a day. Or, if you are set on a 3/4 Ton, there are plenty of big TTs and shorter 5ers that you will be able to handle all day long. Just broaden your search in the RV market a little. But play it safe, don't cut it too close.

[Gsykora]

Ok, I've been doing lots or research and reading lots of forums and websites about towing and tow vehicles and 5th wheels - certainly lots to consider, but I think I've got it figured out. We have our minds made up on the trailer. It's a Montana 3791RDH, 41ft, 13,900 lbs dry weight, 16,830 lbs loaded capacity and 2835 lb hitch weight. I've eliminated all 3/5 ton trucks from consideration because most have only a 15,000 lb 'ish' max trailer weight. I factored in our passenger weight, cargo weight and hitch weight into the truck payloads. So, in the 1ton range I'm looking at the following:

Ram 3500 short bed, SRW. Max trailer weight of 17,150 lbs, max truck payload of 4035 lbs.

Ford F350 short bed, SRW, Max trailer weight 15,900 lbs, max truck payload of 3837 lbs.

Chevy 3500 short bed, SRW, Max trailer weight of 17,000 lbs, max truck payload of 4125 lbs

Ram 3500 short bed dually, Max trailer weight of 23,480lbs, max truck payload of 6024 lbs

I used the max loaded trailer weight for all calculations but really never plan on hauling around the 1600lbs of fluids that are in that weight calculation.

The Ram 3500 SRW SB has 830 lbs of excess payload capacity and a couple hundred lbs of capacity in the max trailer weight.

The Ford has 652 lbs of excess payload capacity, but is 930 lbs out of capacity with the fully loaded trailer.

The Chevy has 970 lbs of excess payload capacity and 370 lbs of excess trailer capacity.

The Ram 3500 SB dually has 2800 lbs excess payload capacity and 6600 lbs excess trailer capacity.

I'd really like to stay away from the dually if possible. The Ram 3500 SRW SB is my first choice. I've seen several other owners on different forums using this same truck with this same (or very similar size/weight) trailer and it works. I know with all the short beds, I'm going to get a Reese Airborne Sidewinder 5th wheel pin box so I can get the additional 22" of clearance. Just looking for thoughts on my truck "math" and consideration.

[SmokeyWren]

Hi, Gsykora, and and to our campfire.

Originally Posted by Gsykora

Just looking for thoughts on my truck "math" and consideration.

Sounds like you've done your homework. My only suggestion is for you to ignore the "max trailer weight" (tow rating) and concentrate on the payload capacity of the tow vehicle. If you don't exceed the payload capacity, you won't get close to the max trailer weight.

Tow rating is based on the GCWR of the truck, but GCWR is usually not the limiter as to the weight of a 5er you can tow without being overloaded. Payload capacity is based on the GVWR of the truck and is usually the limiter as to the weight of a 5er you can tow without being overloaded. In other words, the weight on the kingpin or "pin" weight is usually the key to not being overloaded.

...16,830 lbs loaded capacity and 2835 lb hitch weight.

That's dry hitch weight, so understated from the real world hitch weight. It's 20.4% of dry trailer weight, so it's in the ballpark of the percent you can expect with loaded trailer. I would use 22% for that trailer.

If you load the trailer to gross 16,000 pounds, that's 3,520 pounds pin weight, plus another 300 pounds for the weight of the installed 5er hitch with the Sidewinder pin box. So 3,820 total hitch weight. The Ram 3500 SRW you've chosen can haul that trailer without being overloaded, but you won't have much wiggle room for adding more weight to the truck or trailer.

[Freqz]

3520 pin in a short box is cutting awfully close if you have a diesel...and a bed liner and a sunroof and tools and...

[SmokeyWren]

Originally Posted by SmokeyWren

The Ram 3500 SRW you've chosen can haul that trailer without being overloaded, but you won't have much wiggle room for adding more weight to the truck or trailer.

Well, I didn't word that very well. Payload capacity of 4,035 minus hitch weight pf 3,820 leaves only 215 pounds for passenger and any other weight in the truck. So the statement that "you wont have much wiggle room" is an understatement. You won't have ANY wiggle room, and will probably be overloaded.

None of the SRW pickups can haul a loaded 16k RV trailer with a normal load in the truck without being overloaded. So seriously consider moving up to a DRW (dually).

[Gsykora]

Hey, I keep coming to that conclusion but really don't want the longbed - seems like just way more hassel when not towing. I'm really leaning towards the Ram 3500 CC SB DRW setup. Kind of the best of both worlds. I get the best of both worlds. It has a GVW of 14000 lbs and a max payload of over 5600 lbs plus over 7000 lbs of additional trailer capacity (max capacity of 23000 lbs). AND in the Mega cab configuration, I get a much bigger back set and total length is only 1 ft more than the 3500 SB SRW model. Seems like a win win.