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Old 08-19-2014, 09:16 PM   #1
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New Dodge 1/2 Ton Diesel

I recently heard about this. First diesel half ton. I suspect its got more torque for towing, but the payload and total towing capacity appears the same as F150.

Dunno, why. Just thought it could make more difference with the diesel.

Ram EcoDiesel - Fuel Economy, Power & Efficiency - Ram Trucks
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Old 08-19-2014, 10:54 PM   #2
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The only issue with the diesel that I've researched is the DEF that has to be added. C/D does a long term test and they added more than expected. While the ram ecodiesel does have better fuel economy than the ford ecoboost, the DEF will negate a lot of the difference. The ford can also be equipped for more payload and towing because the dodge has to be be outfitted in a higher trim level to get the ecodiesel which adds weight as well as the diesel engine weighing more reducing payload capacity.
I'm not saying the ecodiesel isn't an awesome truck, its just all the emissions requirements really affect its potential. As far as towing power, the ecoboost makes more torque at the same RPMs.
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:42 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by ykcamom View Post
I recently heard about this. First diesel half ton. I suspect its got more torque for towing, but the payload and total towing capacity appears the same as F150.

Dunno, why. Just thought it could make more difference with the diesel.

Ram EcoDiesel - Fuel Economy, Power & Efficiency - Ram Trucks

Here is a link on real world mileage for the Ram 1500 Eco-Diesel truck.

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/247814-MPG-reports

DEF is a no brainer for any new diesel truck it has been in Europe since the 90ís that I know of. I filled up a diesel in Europe in the 90ís when I was renting one on a trip. I believe it is known as AD-Blue. You can purchase DEF for as little as $2.95 a gallon at a truck stop for the Ram truck.

Here ia a link for a towing report on the 1500 Ram Eco-diesel Truck.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/247849-First-towing-roadtrip-370mi-7600lb-24-enclosed-trailer
Read the whole thread and see post 6 in it.

Jim W.
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Old 08-20-2014, 08:00 AM   #4
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While the ram ecodiesel does have better fuel economy than the ford ecoboost, the DEF will negate a lot of the difference.
Don't know about DEF consumption on the 1/2 ton Ram, but on HD trucks it is at least 1000 miles per gal, even towing. My DEF tank holds 5.3 gal. and I've got over 4000 miles since last fill up, with more than 50% towing. Remaining range is over 1300 miles. Anyway, at roughly $3.00 per gal, that figures out to 3 tenths of a cent per mile. Pretty much insignificant in the whole towing picture.
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Old 08-20-2014, 08:53 AM   #5
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Back to the original question.
A diesel may have more pulling power than a gas engine, but the chassis of a truck has more to do with what you can haul than the engine does. If that truck has the same frame and brakes/suspension than a gas model, the towing capacities are not going to be much different
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:28 AM   #6
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The only issue with the diesel that I've researched is the DEF that has to be added. C/D does a long term test and they added more than expected. While the ram ecodiesel does have better fuel economy than the ford ecoboost, the DEF will negate a lot of the difference. The ford can also be equipped for more payload and towing because the dodge has to be be outfitted in a higher trim level to get the ecodiesel which adds weight as well as the diesel engine weighing more reducing payload capacity.
I'm not saying the ecodiesel isn't an awesome truck, its just all the emissions requirements really affect its potential. As far as towing power, the ecoboost makes more torque at the same RPMs.
Much of what you're saying is based on assumptions.

When you actually crunch the numbers, DEF is fairly negligible. The expected fill up interval is 10k miles, but even if you're getting worse than advertised and you have to refill every 8k miles, it's still fairly negligible at current prices under $3 a gallon for 8 gallons, which is $24 for every 8k miles, and you're factoring that in heavily against the ram??

Also, the diesel is available on the lowest trim levels. Ram has always said from the beginning, way before release that the ecodiesel would be available on most of the trim levels, including the lowest trim level (tradesman), and the next higher SLT trim levels. Those are the two lowest trim levels. You can buy a barebones tradesman edition with the ecodiesel for under $30k. Considering that dodge dealers always heavily discount under MSRP, you can buy a ram crewcab with the diesel for under $35k right now.

The ford ecoboost will out tow a ram ecodiesel for sure due to much higher horsepower, but fuel economy while not towing is under 20mpg for most owners on a good day, and around 10mpg or less for most while towing. The ecoboost offers full torque at 2300rpm i believe, but most diesels will do it under 2000rpm. THe ram undeloaded is rated for 27/28mpg highway, and most averaging 24-26mpg with city driving mixed in. That's impressive for a half ton. Fuel prices are 10-15% more, but you're getting 25-50% better fuel economy. If you average 17mpg in your F150 ecoboost, and average 25mpg with the ram ecodiesel, that's a 47% increase in fuel economy. Also keep in mind that the ecoboost require premium fuel while towing, so fuel price is the same while towing.

Now mpg while towing is what i'm waiting to hear about from the ram ecodiesel. But i'm speculating it'll still retain 25-50% more fuel economy vs the ecoboost 3.5L.
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Old 08-20-2014, 01:37 PM   #7
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Trailer Life mag just did a tow report with a Ram 1500 ED Outdoorsman 4x4 3.92 gears. They towed a Lance 1995 TT @4860lbs. They got 12.6. 22 mpg solo, which I'm assuming was mixed driving. Eco can't touch 22 mpg mixed driving. Considering that the Eco is a $2400 option and the ED is a $4000 option the ED is $1600 more than the Eco. Wouldn't take long to burn up the difference when getting 25-26mpg as opposed to 20 mpg in the Eco, even figuring in the extra $ for diesel.
Biggest issue with the ED is the Ram payloads are on average lower than any of the 1/2 ton trucks. Ram isn't touting the Ram ED as a tow machine just because it's got a diesel motor. It's been overblown by those not in the know and think any truck with a diesel should be able to tow 20,000lbs or it's worthless. The Ram Ed is just an economical alternative to other 1/2 ton trucks, same as a TDI Jetta or any other vehicle that has a diesel option.
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Old 08-20-2014, 02:20 PM   #8
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The reason for Ram being so low on tow ratings is that they conform to the SAE J2807 Towing standard; see page 16 of Trailer Life Sept.2014 issue.

I will tend not to believe the other two manufactures tow ratings since they do not want to conform to the SAE towing standard! Why they cannot meet the standard?


Jim W.
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:19 PM   #9
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Ram tow ratings really aren't that low, it's the payload rating that kills the whole thing. A truck that can tow 9000lbs should have more than a 1200lb payload rating IMO.
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:31 PM   #10
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My fault, I read the DEF entry incorrectly. I thought they said they put 8 gallons in every 1000 miles. Read it again. Every 10,000 miles. Not that bad I suppose. They do claim a gallon of DEF is $8.
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Old 08-20-2014, 08:24 PM   #11
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The first owner reports on the 1/2 ton Ram pickups are coming in. I've heard that their MPG is often even better than the 28 mpg claimed in highway driving.

They'd really be great for a tournament bass fisherman, as they're pulling a 5000 lb. load. But RV's are substantially heavier and they have terrible aerodynamics.

These trucks are especially nice when they're teamed with the air ride suspension at all four corners. That suspension was so nice on the Jeep Grand Cherokee that Sergio Marchionne demanded a completely new 1/2 ton frame be engineered in record time using the same components.

Many people talk so high of the Hemi engine option. But they overlook that the new generation 3.6 liter V-6 is one of the best and efficient engines ever made--and pushing 300 hp.

RV'ers really need to stick with the 2500 and 3500 Heavy Duty versions of the Ram truck.
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Old 08-20-2014, 08:29 PM   #12
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Much of what you're saying is based on assumptions.

When you actually crunch the numbers, DEF is fairly negligible. The expected fill up interval is 10k miles, but even if you're getting worse than advertised and you have to refill every 8k miles, it's still fairly negligible at current prices under $3 a gallon for 8 gallons, which is $24 for every 8k miles, and you're factoring that in heavily against the ram??

Also, the diesel is available on the lowest trim levels. Ram has always said from the beginning, way before release that the ecodiesel would be available on most of the trim levels, including the lowest trim level (tradesman), and the next higher SLT trim levels. Those are the two lowest trim levels. You can buy a barebones tradesman edition with the ecodiesel for under $30k. Considering that dodge dealers always heavily discount under MSRP, you can buy a ram crewcab with the diesel for under $35k right now.

The ford ecoboost will out tow a ram ecodiesel for sure due to much higher horsepower, but fuel economy while not towing is under 20mpg for most owners on a good day, and around 10mpg or less for most while towing. The ecoboost offers full torque at 2300rpm i believe, but most diesels will do it under 2000rpm. THe ram undeloaded is rated for 27/28mpg highway, and most averaging 24-26mpg with city driving mixed in. That's impressive for a half ton. Fuel prices are 10-15% more, but you're getting 25-50% better fuel economy. If you average 17mpg in your F150 ecoboost, and average 25mpg with the ram ecodiesel, that's a 47% increase in fuel economy. Also keep in mind that the ecoboost require premium fuel while towing, so fuel price is the same while towing.

Now mpg while towing is what i'm waiting to hear about from the ram ecodiesel. But i'm speculating it'll still retain 25-50% more fuel economy vs the ecoboost 3.5L.
Read an article on motor trend app the other day. It was about a 2013 ram 1500 crew cab hemi that ram had given them from 2013 truck if the year which the ram beat out the ecoboost to win. MT had put 30,000 miles on it and was fixing to return to ram and gave final report on it. They said they had averaged 16.x mpg for the 30 grand they had put on it. They compared it to an ecoboost they had with around 12,000 miles on it. The ecoboost had averaged only 14.x mpg for those miles. I was really surprised that the ecoboost got so low of mileage especially over that many miles. That's almost 2 mpg and $3 + per gallon that adds up fast.

Chad
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Old 08-20-2014, 08:51 PM   #13
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Read an article on motor trend app the other day. It was about a 2013 ram 1500 crew cab hemi that ram had given them from 2013 truck if the year which the ram beat out the ecoboost to win. MT had put 30,000 miles on it and was fixing to return to ram and gave final report on it. They said they had averaged 16.x mpg for the 30 grand they had put on it. They compared it to an ecoboost they had with around 12,000 miles on it. The ecoboost had averaged only 14.x mpg for those miles. I was really surprised that the ecoboost got so low of mileage especially over that many miles. That's almost 2 mpg and $3 + per gallon that adds up fast.

Chad
I just read it. 15.6 average for the Ram and 14.4 for the Ford. A difference of 1.2 mpg. however an identical drive pattern can have different results. http://special-reports.pickuptrucks....age-drive.html however if you drive a truck how much is fuel economy really on your mind. At least for me it is in the very back. More of an FYI kind of thing.
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Old 08-20-2014, 09:32 PM   #14
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I just read it. 15.6 average for the Ram and 14.4 for the Ford. A difference of 1.2 mpg. however an identical drive pattern can have different results. http://special-reports.pickuptrucks....age-drive.html however if you drive a truck how much is fuel economy really on your mind. At least for me it is in the very back. More of an FYI kind of thing.
My bad james. I thought the ram averaged 16 something. Memory not as great as it used to be. Agreed about the fuel mileage. When it's gets to E I stop and fill it up. That's all you can do. If you can buy a $40,000 + pickup you should be able to put $100 of gas in it.

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