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Old 12-07-2012, 02:44 PM   #1
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New standard towing across manufacturers

Seems like a year ago I heard of a standard towing test to make sure a manufacturer did not have bogus towing numbers. But from what I read the test was towing up hill from Davis Dam. Also do not remember if any 5th wheel towing was mentioned in the testing. Anyone hear any more news on this or can add anything?
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:22 PM   #2
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SAE J2807 is the trailer towing standard you're referring to. It was developed by the Society of Automotive Engineers with input from truck, towable RV, hitch, etc. manufacturers. Implementation of J2807 is turning into a bag of worms, however, as evidenced by the following article excerpt - Full Article Text:

Quote:
Just when you thought everyone in the room was going to be mature about this, we're right back in elementary school.

GM released a statement accusing "other competitors" (meaning Ford) of not doing the right thing and updating their 2013 truck testing procedures with revised towing and GCWR numbers, following the new J2807 standards. As a result, GM says it is "postponing" its own full implementation of the standards and test procedures for determining said maximum trailer and gross combined weight ratings on its vehicles until everyone is doing it, even though the company released its 2013 towing info in which all the numbers have been recalculated.

This action is in direct response to Ford's earlier statements that the automaker will not implement the J2807 standards on its full lineup of pickup trucks until its all-new models come to market, which is not likely to be anytime soon.

We recently reported that SAE's committee-born test procedures typically do not have any kind of legal teeth, and the group usually refers to the requirements only as "suggestions." In the most recently published J2807 document (dated May 23, 2012), this 27-page document refers to the implementation timing only once, stating:

"This document establishes minimum performance criteria at GCWR and calculation methodology to determine tow-vehicle TWR (trailer weight rating) for passenger cars, multi-purpose passenger vehicles and trucks. This includes all vehicles up to 13,000 lb GVWR. It is recommended that the performance requirements within be adopted for all vehicles with model year designation 2013 or later."

Whether or not this interpretation means we have to wait until model year 2014 or 2015 to see pickup trucks (or SUVs and crossovers for that matter) with truly comparable maximum towing and GCWR numbers for the Big Three truck makers, we suppose we'll have to wait and find out.
Rusty
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:09 PM   #3
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Is there a reasonable discount on the posted trailer tow rating? For example, if my
Chevy Silverado 1500 says it can safely pull 9500 lbs, is it safe to assume a 20% discount to about 7500 lbs is a reasonable adjustment for Marketing BS?

Also, is there a current trailer tow rating schedule for 2013 trucks?
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:40 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonavonP View Post
Is there a reasonable discount on the posted trailer tow rating? For example, if my
Chevy Silverado 1500 says it can safely pull 9500 lbs, is it safe to assume a 20% discount to about 7500 lbs is a reasonable adjustment for Marketing BS?

Also, is there a current trailer tow rating schedule for 2013 trucks?
My 2500 says my max is 10300 lbs. Hard to believe that it's only 800 lbs more then a 1500.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:11 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by nplenzick View Post

My 2500 says my max is 10300 lbs. Hard to believe that it's only 800 lbs more then a 1500.
But it really isn't. I'm towing a 6500 TT that about maxes out my 2009 Silverado 1/2 ton on payload with everything loaded. No way I'm getting anywhere close to that 9500lb. capacity.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:04 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonavonP View Post
Is there a reasonable discount on the posted trailer tow rating? For example, if my
Chevy Silverado 1500 says it can safely pull 9500 lbs, is it safe to assume a 20% discount to about 7500 lbs is a reasonable adjustment for Marketing BS?..................
To the contrary, I believe the 9500lbs rating is a point negotiated between the engineers and the lawyers, with the lawyers winning the argument for liability purposes. But then again, I could be wrong.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonavonP View Post
Is there a reasonable discount on the posted trailer tow rating? For example, if my Chevy Silverado 1500 says it can safely pull 9500 lbs, is it safe to assume a 20% discount to about 7500 lbs is a reasonable adjustment for Marketing BS?
No. Too much difference between various tow vehicles, and the weight of people, pets, tools, jacks, spares, hitch and other stuff you haul in the tow vehicle when towing. For example, my '99.5 F-250 diesel had a tow rating over 13,000 pounds. But my 5er that grossed 7,900 pounds overloaded that pickup by several hundred pounds over the GVWR of the F-250.

My 2012 F-150 has a tow rating of 8,400 pounds, but it's overloaded with my TT that weighs only 4,870 pounds when wet and loaded for the road.

The manufacturer's published tow ratings are misunderstood by most folks who don't take time to read the fine print.

The tow ratings are based on the GCWR, and therefore tell you only the max weight you can pull up a reasonable grade at a reasonable speed without overheating/melting/bending/breaking something in the drivetrain. But the tow ratings ignore hitch weight, which is limited by the GVWR of the tow vehicle. The GVWR limits the weight you can haul on the suspension of the tow vehicle.

If your trailer is a wagon-style trailer with almost no hitch weight, such as a farmer's cotton trailer or grain trailer, and assuming your Chevy has no options such as a spray-in bedliner or toolbox or tonneau or cap, and absolutely nothing in/on it but a skinny driver, then you can go by the tow rating. But if it is a travel trailer with 12% to 15% hitch weight, or a fifth wheel with 18% to 20% or more hitch weight, or a gooseneck with 20% to 25% hitch weight, then the tow rating is almost useless because it ignores hitch weight and the weight of any other cargo in the tow vehicle.

For almost all half-ton pickups and SUVs, and even for most 3/4-ton and so-called one ton pickups with single rear wheels (SRW), hitch weight is your limiter, and you cannot tow anywhere close to the tow rating without exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle. For a full-size SUV such as a Suburban, some families cannot tow any trailer at all because the GVWR is used up by the weight of people and "stuff" in the SUV. They can haul either a family or tow a small TT, but not both at the same time without being overloaded over the GVWR of the SUV.

For your Chevy Silverado 1500, the only good estimate of the max trailer weight you can tow without being overloaded is "hand" calculated, using the actual weight of your wet and loaded pickup and the GVWR of the pickup.

To determine the actual weight of your wet and loaded pickup, load it up with all the people, pets, toolbox with tools, jacks, extra fluids and spare parts, and the parts of the hitch that will be on/in the pickup when towing. Go to a truck stop that has a CAT scale, and fill up with fuel. Then weigh the wet and loaded tow vehicle. Subtract the weight of the wet and loaded tow vehicle from the GVWR of the tow vehicle, and the answer is the max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded.

Divide that max hitch weight by 15% to get the realistic tow rating for a TT. Or divide that max hitch weight by 20% to get the realistic tow rating for a 5er. You'll probably be disappointed that your realistic tow rating is nowhere near the 9,500 tow rating published by GM.

Quote:
Also, is there a current trailer tow rating schedule for 2013 trucks?
I don't keep up with other brands, but I'm looking at the 28-page Ford 2013 RV and Trailer Towing Guide. It includes all 2013 Ford and Lincoln cars, pickups, chassis cab trucks, crossovers, etc. that can tow even a tiny trailer. A Ford fleet manager friend e-mailed me the link, and I downloaded it from the Ford website.

(No, I didn't hang onto that link, but any manager at any Ford or Lincoln store should be able to give you the link.)

And I'll bet Fiat and Government Motors dealership managers can give you a link to a similar towing guide for their brands.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:09 PM   #8
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As noted by Smokey, read all of the fine print on the rating...that is the got you phrase. The published tow rating is based on GCWR and the curb weight os a base model truck, no passengers, only a 150# driver, no cargo, no accessories and no hitch. This is so that the marketing types can publish the largest number possible.

A typical 5er has a pin weight when loaded that is about 20% of the trailer GVWR. A typical travel trailer when loaded will have a tongue weight of10 to 12% (some as high as 15%) of the trailer GVWR.

Traveling and towing with a properly match truck and trailer is so much more enjoyable than an undersized truck.

You can try to use some of the rules of thumb, and maybe able to get in the ball park, but you can still get over loaded on the trucks GVWR, especially with 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks.

My 2012 F350 CrewCab dually weights 8810# wet and loaded for travel with the hitch. The trucks GVWR is 13,300# which leaves me with the potential to have a pin weight if 4490# to be within ratings. The trucks GCWR is 30,000# which leaves me the potential ability to tow 21,190#. Both of these assume that I will not exceed the rear axle GAWR. I would have to go out and look at the sticker to see what that number is, but, it is not problem with my trailer.

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Old 12-31-2012, 07:00 PM   #9
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Just remember for every truck out there there are TWO towing ratings.

The one in the manual, In theory, you can tow that much at freeway speeds.

The ones they show on TV (Show it pulling a Boing 747 Wide body, or a rail road car, or someother way more than it can possibly pull) Low gear, Low range, 4wd and not very fast.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:06 PM   #10
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Yes, I wonder how much the gear ratio was modified for the Tundra to tow the 300,000# Enterprise or Endeavor?

Ken
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:34 PM   #11
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If we see it on TV, it's true !!!!

Hmmm, Did they ever show the rear of the shuttle at the same time ?
How do we know that the thrusters were not flaming ?!?!
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:59 PM   #12
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Isn't Ford being sued for "padding" it's fuel economy ratings? Why not do the same thing with other ratings too? Keeps the costs lower.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:39 AM   #13
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I would take a WAG and say probably 70% of all TV while towing are over their ratings.
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