New Trucks From Workhorse, Rivian, and others (Ford 150) - All Electric

[Scarab0088]

Originally Posted by Brad34

New production quite possibly. They will not do an outright ban on every gas vehicle already in existence.

Now I can see a future ban on manual driving. That's a topic for another thread, however.

Apologies...you are of course correct. The Bill of Rights protects your property rights to keep your older vehicle.

But like you mention with manual-only driving vehicles, I can see that "old" vehicles could be banned from certain public roads.
Maybe we will see "time of use" laws. Like London, bans could be created on ICE vehicles during commuter hours, areas, or similar

The gov't controls public roads, so permission to use that will be what is at risk.

Safe travels

[Scarab0088]

Well...this is an interesting turn of events...Ford Invests Half Billion $$$ in Rivian:

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ford-in...or-new-vehicle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arw3bOse9HE

[BobChill]

I 100% believe EVs will completely replace combustion not too far down the road. But being 100% honest, I'm too old to care and the rumble of a big V8 gasser or chug of a big diesel is heavenly music to my ears. It's ingrained in my soul and I'll never let it go. I will drive big gas and diesel trucks until the end of my time on earth. No doubt about it.

[kdauto]

I see a lot of flash bang and little substance. Some of you seem to think Tesla semi trucks are invading the highways, it just ain't so. Tesla sure loves to make people salivate at project vehicles and ideas, then starts a gofundme of sorts so he can one day, maybe when he feels like it (or actually HAS enough cash amassed) start to build something.

Musk is a great illusionist and marketer. Ilike the ideas behind the products but absolutely detest the way he implements them and the way he monopolizes the product and service.

Anyone thinking about true EVs better be aware how locked in they are once they own them. I can not get a single lamp, screw or anything for a Tesla. Only "approved" repair shops can obtain them and there's a story behind that as well.

There is a heck of a way to go for heavy vehicles and long distance transporters to switch to EV.

[sirtate]

Originally Posted by kdauto

I see a lot of flash bang and little substance. Some of you seem to think Tesla semi trucks are invading the highways, it just ain't so. Tesla sure loves to make people salivate at project vehicles and ideas, then starts a gofundme of sorts so he can one day, maybe when he feels like it (or actually HAS enough cash amassed) start to build something.



Musk is a great illusionist and marketer. Ilike the ideas behind the products but absolutely detest the way he implements them and the way he monopolizes the product and service.



Anyone thinking about true EVs better be aware how locked in they are once they own them. I can not get a single lamp, screw or anything for a Tesla. Only "approved" repair shops can obtain them and there's a story behind that as well.



There is a heck of a way to go for heavy vehicles and long distance transporters to switch to EV.

The Tesla heavy tractors are maxed out at 80k lbs.

That sounds like a lot, but it is the same as any 18wheeler.

What all of the weight police are saying about 1/2 tons, needs to be said about Tesla truck.

It ain't gross weight, it's payload!

When a International Pro-Star LT weighs in at 17k, it can carry 6k more than the Tesla. And that's with a sleeper berth.

It also costs $60k less.
Is built with components that are everywhere.
And goes from empty to a 'full charge' in less than 10mins.

Its full charge will take it over 1400miles at max weights.

The Tesla cannot compare to those numbers.

They can be used in regional delivery work, but they can't be used for more than one shift per day.

Since they take the better part of a shift to charge, you need to buy two tractors to do the same work.

These are serious prohibitions to any business operating a fleet of trucks.

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by sirtate

The Tesla heavy tractors are maxed out at 80k lbs.

That sounds like a lot, but it is the same as any 18wheeler.

What all of the weight police are saying about 1/2 tons, needs to be said about Tesla truck.

It ain't gross weight, it's payload!

When a International Pro-Star LT weighs in at 17k, it can carry 6k more than the Tesla. And that's with a sleeper berth.

It also costs $60k less.
Is built with components that are everywhere.
And goes from empty to a 'full charge' in less than 10mins.

Its full charge will take it over 1400miles at max weights.

The Tesla cannot compare to those numbers.

They can be used in regional delivery work, but they can't be used for more than one shift per day.

Since they take the better part of a shift to charge, you need to buy two tractors to do the same work.

These are serious prohibitions to any business operating a fleet of trucks.

The thing is, AFAIK there are ZERO Tesla trucks on the road except for exhibition. I have serious doubts they will EVER be built for real. Musk is quite often very optimistic when soliciting a round of financing but months and years late getting things in real motion.

With the Tesla fleet growing older by the month, his dealer network still as minuscule as ever, I see LOTS of problems coming soon. Some folks are already waiting weeks or months for service on warranty vehicles. If there are out of warranty vehicles they are pretty much SOL and almost need another vehicle while they await servicing.

How would ANY trucker deal with this? I can't see it happening...at ALL!

I agree 100% with you on payload. All the contractors and diesel fans are always talking pulling power, trailer capacity but then load a 5er or even heavier TT and it's sagging 5 to 6" on the ass end and still has crappy brakes and frames.

I am not very familiar with the EV medium and Heavy duty (semis) out there.

[radar]

Originally Posted by kdauto

The thing is, AFAIK there are ZERO Tesla trucks on the road except for exhibition. I have serious doubts they will EVER be built for real. Musk is quite often very optimistic when soliciting a round of financing but months and years late getting things in real motion.

With the Tesla fleet growing older by the month, his dealer network still as minuscule as ever, I see LOTS of problems coming soon. Some folks are already waiting weeks or months for service on warranty vehicles. If there are out of warranty vehicles they are pretty much SOL and almost need another vehicle while they await servicing.

How would ANY trucker deal with this? I can't see it happening...at ALL!

I agree 100% with you on payload. All the contractors and diesel fans are always talking pulling power, trailer capacity but then load a 5er or even heavier TT and it's sagging 5 to 6" on the ass end and still has crappy brakes and frames.

I am not very familiar with the EV medium and Heavy duty (semis) out there.

I tend to agree with this even though I am a fan of their cars and of EV’s in general. (It’s all we drive for the last 4 years....we’ll except for the big 40 foot diesel pusher LOL).

Tesla needs to concentrate on service. Either thru service locations or an expanded ranger network. I do like that they are braking the dealership model somewhat as buying a car at a dealership kinda sucks. Our one EV gets serviced st Mercedes and the other at Nissan. Neither one has needed a single service in 4 years. 3 jugs of washer fluid in 4 years for two vehicles. Although Nissan did offer to rotate my tires for free after they sent me a coupon for an oil and filter change. But there has to be a place to if you have a problem. For me that would be 500 km. And we both work so that would be inconvenient. Apparently ranger service is based out of a town fairly close by so maybe it would be fine.

From what I read most Tesla’s are trouble free but with my luck.....

Next year we are replacing one of our cars. A model 3 is on the short list but so is the new Nissan Leaf eplus. We’ll look at it closer to then.

[sirtate]

Originally Posted by radar

I tend to agree with this even though I am a fan of their cars and of EV’s in general. (It’s all we drive for the last 4 years....we’ll except for the big 40 foot diesel pusher LOL).



Tesla needs to concentrate on service. Either thru service locations or an expanded ranger network. I do like that they are braking the dealership model somewhat as buying a car at a dealership kinda sucks. Our one EV gets serviced st Mercedes and the other at Nissan. Neither one has needed a single service in 4 years. 3 jugs of washer fluid in 4 years for two vehicles. Although Nissan did offer to rotate my tires for free after they sent me a coupon for an oil and filter change. But there has to be a place to if you have a problem. For me that would be 500 km. And we both work so that would be inconvenient. Apparently ranger service is based out of a town fairly close by so maybe it would be fine.



From what I read most Tesla’s are trouble free but with my luck.....



Next year we are replacing one of our cars. A model 3 is on the short list but so is the new Nissan Leaf eplus. We’ll look at it closer to then.

There are fewer moving parts.

BUT.

Anything man-made will have flaws.

A VMOS-FET transistor fails on a circuit board, and I'm stuck on the road smelling burnt bakelite. (I know they don't use bakelite anymore, but it still smells the same)

And I can't find a way to fix it myself.

And I need to tow my tractor AND load to a service location. At $5/mile. I'd lose my mind.

Big diesels rarely fail catastrophically, they usually lose coolant flow, or electric control.

Coolant flow is lost by the pump failing, or a leak.
The vehicle can be limped to safety.

Electric control just makes silence. This is 'black box' technology. Nobody knows what goes on inside. But any shop that sells Cummins/Detroit or Cat can send out a replacement in a taxi if need be. Never further than 1hour away.

It will be interesting to see how Tesla handles the 'on the side of the road' repairs...

Brakes and suspension and such are the same as anyone elses product.

Just like the cars.

[radar]

Originally Posted by sirtate

There are fewer moving parts.

BUT.

Anything man-made will have flaws.

A VMOS-FET transistor fails on a circuit board, and I'm stuck on the road smelling burnt bakelite. (I know they don't use bakelite anymore, but it still smells the same)

And I can't find a way to fix it myself.

And I need to tow my tractor AND load to a service location. At $5/mile. I'd lose my mind.

Big diesels rarely fail catastrophically, they usually lose coolant flow, or electric control.

Coolant flow is lost by the pump failing, or a leak.
The vehicle can be limped to safety.

Electric control just makes silence. This is 'black box' technology. Nobody knows what goes on inside. But any shop that sells Cummins/Detroit or Cat can send out a replacement in a taxi if need be. Never further than 1hour away.

It will be interesting to see how Tesla handles the 'on the side of the road' repairs...

Brakes and suspension and such are the same as anyone elses product.

Just like the cars.

Makes sense. But I suspect brakes will last a LOT longer. Brakes on an EV (car that is) don’t get a lot use. 2011 Nissan Leaf cabs with a quarter million kilometres are still on their original pads.

It’s one of the reasons we like the new Eplus. If e-brake is selected it is literally one pedal driving. Never touch your brake unless it’s an emergency. Kinda cool although a little weird at first.

[sirtate]

Originally Posted by radar

Makes sense. But I suspect brakes will last a LOT longer. Brakes on an EV (car that is) don’t get a lot use. 2011 Nissan Leaf cabs with a quarter million kilometres are still on their original pads.

They'll get similar use as the brakes on ICE trucks.

The big 15l engines provide as much engine retarding as they do power (600hp)...

That energy is turned into heat and dumped into the air through the exhaust, however.

At least the Teslas can recharge the batteries as fast as they'll heat up.

[radar]

Originally Posted by sirtate

They'll get similar use as the brakes on ICE trucks.

The big 15l engines provide as much engine retarding as they do power (600hp)...

That energy is turned into heat and dumped into the air through the exhaust, however.

At least the Teslas can recharge the batteries as fast as they'll heat up.

Dam. I forgot about that and I drive a pusher. Thanks for the insight.

[sirtate]

Originally Posted by radar

Dam. I forgot about that and I drive a pusher. Thanks for the insight.

One thing that occurred to me after responding to your comment.

The battery can only take so much amperage before it overheats.

What happens through some steep hills, like the narrows around Golden, BC?

Lots of ups drawing high current, heating batteries, followed by hard Regen on the way down.

What'll happen when the batteries overheat?

Regen will have to stop, wouldn't it?
Would they use the current to heat electric coils, instead? (Like trains?)

Or would they leave the driver to deal with just the brakes?

(Picture truck flying down hill, brakes on fire, driver screaming like Ned Flanders from the Simpsons)

[radar]

Originally Posted by sirtate

One thing that occurred to me after responding to your comment.

The battery can only take so much amperage before it overheats.

What happens through some steep hills, like the narrows around Golden, BC?

Lots of ups drawing high current, heating batteries, followed by hard Regen on the way down.

What'll happen when the batteries overheat?

Regen will have to stop, wouldn't it?
Would they use the current to heat electric coils, instead? (Like trains?)

Or would they leave the driver to deal with just the brakes?

(Picture truck flying down hill, brakes on fire, driver screaming like Ned Flanders from the Simpsons)

Well, all that happens on our EV’s when the batteries are full is the regen is either eliminated or reduced. Full regen for either of our EV’s is not available until under about 92 percent charge. But even that depends on the battery temperature. Regen is reduced if the battery is cold.

Real thing. Some EV’s have what’s called hill top charging level pre sets. If you live on a hill you can choose to charge to 80 or 90 or whatever depending on what you need. Saves brakes. Neither of our EV’s has this although they are a little older things have changed a lot in 5 years. If I’m in that situation (local ski hill) I just set the charge timer to kick off sooner. Nothing bad happens if you don’t. You just don’t have as much or any regen.

I can’t say I have seen either of our batteries come anywhere close to overheating, ever.

[Scarab0088]

I was asking about folks considering all-electric light duty trucks...how did the conversation digress to big-rigs?

OTR Truckers are S-L-O-W to accept change. Heck, they even fight aero-dynamic changes, favoring 50 year old body shapes. A big-rig should be shaped like a bullet train, but No!
So Tesla or similar electric Class8's will probably be driven into the market by the transport companies, not owner/operators.

Anyway...any opinions about these electric pick-ups?
With Ford contracting Rivianfor their first version, it is looking to be a sure-thing.