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Old 08-30-2016, 08:15 PM   #1
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Newbie fiver owner a bit nervous on truck choice

Maiden voyage this weekend not worried staying in good ole flat Illinois, but going west with my fiver next year is bugging me a bit. Have a 2016 GMC Denali 2500 HD, which GM trailer giude says 13,900 max. Tow. I did a lot of research and thought I found it saying 17,400. Turns out 2015 guide says 17,400 but exact same set up says 13,900 in 2016! No changes of any kind that I can see, same tyranny, 6.6 duramax, etc. I'm at 12,000 dry wt and we travel light. Anyone got same set up? Any problems? Thanks!
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Old 08-30-2016, 08:22 PM   #2
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That give you 1900lbs, I doubt you will have a problem, one way to help is not fill the fresh water tank unless boondocking then fill close to your destination, your only other options are run over weight a bit or get another new truck. one other idea is it may be a misprint, check with the dealer and find out why.
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Old 08-30-2016, 09:01 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Stano1 View Post
Maiden voyage this weekend not worried staying in good ole flat Illinois, but going west with my fiver next year is bugging me a bit. Have a 2016 GMC Denali 2500 HD, which GM trailer giude says 13,900 max. Tow. I did a lot of research and thought I found it saying 17,400. Turns out 2015 guide says 17,400 but exact same set up says 13,900 in 2016! No changes of any kind that I can see, same tyranny, 6.6 duramax, etc. I'm at 12,000 dry wt and we travel light. Anyone got same set up? Any problems? Thanks!
I think the difference you are seeing is the meeting of the towing standards. 2015 GM did not meet the specs. 2016 the changed the HD lineup to meet the specs. Most all the lineup dropped tow ratings to meet the standards.

Chad
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Old 08-30-2016, 09:13 PM   #4
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The GM guide actually says max towing is 13,000, not 13,900. And the reason it changed is that GM went to the standard SAE J2807 whereas in the past they used a different method to determine towing limits.

The max towing for a 5th wheel or gooseneck is around 17,000 pounds I believe.

Your limiting factor could be payload, and I estimate you are around 2,500 pounds of payload per the sticker, give or take a bit. If your 5er is at 18% pin weight, you'll have only 400 pounds of payload remaining.
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:52 AM   #5
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I'm at 12,000 dry wt and we travel light.
Sorry to be he bearer of bad tidings, but you're going to be overloaded.

Dry weight is meaningless. Your minimum wet and loaded weight on the road will be over 13,000 pounds. But the tow rating is not your limiter. Payload capacity for hitch weight is your limiter.

A 13k 5er is going to have pin weight of around 2,210 pounds or more (17% of gross trailer weight). Subtract 2210 from the GVWR of the tow vehicle and the answer is the max weight of people and stuff and installed 5er hitch you can haul without being overloaded.

My estimate is that no matter how light you travel, you're going to exceed the payload capacity of your 2500 tow vehicle. IOW, you probably bought too much trailer for your tow vehicle.

Payload capacity = the GVWR of the tow vehicle minus the actual wet and loaded weight on the 4 tires of the tow vehicle. A negative payload capacity when the trailer is tied on means you're overloaded.
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Old 09-04-2016, 11:38 AM   #6
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Wonder if the OP got freaked out and decided not to pursue this or just went ahead with his plans.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:08 PM   #7
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Wondered many times as I pass large 5th wheels, if the tow vehicle is truly adequate. SmokeyWren advice points in the right direction. Regardless of the RV Class, you have to understand what the weight ratings mean, if for no other reason, for safety's sake.
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:50 PM   #8
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2016 Denali
GVWR ------9500# (Curb weight approx. 7200#)
Payload ----2200# (12K dry will eat that up before any passengers, stuff in cab etc)
RAWR -----6200# (gonna be at or over on rear axle when loaded up camp ready)
Rear tire max load ratings.???????


2017 Montana 3160RL fiver

Shipping weight --------11,935# (if this was GVWR you would be OK)
Hitch weight (DRY) ----2520# (that is greater than your rated payload and is DRY pin weight)
GVWR ------------------16,000# (into 3500 SRW territory at minimum)

Nice truck
Nice triler

BUT.....very poor match weight wise

Go thru a CAT Scales and get Truck/trailer weights
Then un hook and get truck alone weights
$10-$12

A real reality check
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Old 09-04-2016, 04:34 PM   #9
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Wonder if the OP got freaked out and decided not to pursue this....
He's probably just enjoying the Labor Day weekend at an RV park with his new RV stuff. Expect him back on Tuesday or Wednesday.
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:15 PM   #10
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He's probably just enjoying the Labor Day weekend at an RV park with his new RV stuff. Expect him back on Tuesday or Wednesday.
Yeah he is not going to be a happy camper when he gets back. I bout a 3/4 ton and was going to go out west and decided to go with the 1 ton dw. A lot of people have made this mistake. Its only money and a little pride. I lost both LOL but am a lot safer.
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Old 09-05-2016, 02:14 PM   #11
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Update

Hey everyone appreciate the info. Here is more info on my end and a couple more questions.
I just got back from 6 hour trip to so. Illinois and everything was fine ( until I scraped the side of my mail box ! Not bad)
Her is what I did: wieghed my truck with me, full fuel tank and hitch. 8,000
Loaded camper ( no water ) (still hooked to truck ) 10,300.
Dry wt. is 12,300 According to door sticker and I guessed we put about 500 lbs of junk and food so that's about 2500 less than I would have guessed, so does weight on pin not show on scales since rear axle is off scale? If so than that's exactly what keystone says it should be.
Also had someone tell me payload and pin wt would be close to each other. True?
Payload is 3100 for 2500.
I am 4,000 under gcwr so I am guessing pin weight is only issue left besides tires. Which is my last question. They are rated at 1450 each so 2900 is max I should have on pin?
Once again, thanks for all replies really appreciate voices of experience !
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Old 09-05-2016, 02:34 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Stano1 View Post
Hey everyone appreciate the info. Here is more info on my end and a couple more questions.
I just got back from 6 hour trip to so. Illinois and everything was fine ( until I scraped the side of my mail box ! Not bad)
Her is what I did: wieghed my truck with me, full fuel tank and hitch. 8,000
Loaded camper ( no water ) (still hooked to truck ) 10,300.
Dry wt. is 12,300 According to door sticker and I guessed we put about 500 lbs of junk and food so that's about 2500 less than I would have guessed, so does weight on pin not show on scales since rear axle is off scale? If so than that's exactly what keystone says it should be.
Also had someone tell me payload and pin wt would be close to each other. True?
Payload is 3100 for 2500.
I am 4,000 under gcwr so I am guessing pin weight is only issue left besides tires. Which is my last question. They are rated at 1450 each so 2900 is max I should have on pin?
Once again, thanks for all replies really appreciate voices of experience !
Just read this thread and same thing happened to us, had 3500 truck and thought we would be ok with the new 5er.We were over on the GVW only, but over is over. Bought same truck but newer with more gvw. One of the posts say your truck has a gvw of 9500# and you weighed your truck, it weighed 8000# ready for travel so that only leaves 1500# for payload. You will be over weight in this case by a lot. When you weigh your truck and trailer together the truck axles added together is your actual on road GVW. To find pin weight pull your trailer to a scale. Unhook truck weigh it and then go back and hook up your trailer and go over the scale weighing each axle. The pin weight will be adding both truck axles loaded minus truck axles without trailer. Weight of trailer will be pin weight plus weight of trailer axles. Hope this helps.
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Old 09-05-2016, 07:12 PM   #13
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Thanks for input. That makes sense. Just using what I know and using calculater at fifthwheelst.com it's says I'm ok. Very confusing!
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Old 09-05-2016, 08:28 PM   #14
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....
Payload is 3100 for 2500.
....
Sorry, but your payload can't be 3100 pounds for a CC 4x4 on a 2500. To my knowledge, they cap out around 3,000 pounds in crew cab configurations for the 2500. Much less for diesels.

Did you check your actual payload sticker or is this from another source?
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