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redhooker · 11-07-2019, 08:12 AM

Actually, the OP did say SRWs with 19.5s on the rear by 2025. And DRWs with 22.5s.

And the reason “professionals” are using super singles is simple.

The weight allowed by the DOT on a tire IRRESPECTIVE of it’s rating is the inch width of contact on the pavement. So super singles allow more weight on a single tire due to a larger contact patch. We have a bunch of trucks at work that were spec’ed for super singles exactly due to this DOT limit. Super singles allow more weight than a skinnier single but not as much weight as duals. That’s why you see trailers that don’t carry much weight (Lays potato chip trailers come to mind) using super singles to save money on tires. This is also the reason you see super singles on steer axles on dumptrucks. Allows more weight on the steer axle.

And “professionals” are not so concerned with a smooth quiet ride as much as a vehicle capable of hauling the most weight legally allowed for the most economical price.

mtofell · 11-07-2019, 08:48 AM

To me, a super-single on a DRW to replace two tires on each side takes away one of the greatest benefits of the DRW. That being if you have a blowout you can safely get off the road with the remaining tire.

I seem to remember this going around an RV board another time and someone who really knew trucking educated everyone. Basically, the super-singles only work under some really specific criteria (like someone mentioned hauling fluffy potato chips). I don't know a lot about trucking but do know that pennies per 100 miles across an entire company can make a BIG difference to them.

tuffr2 · 11-07-2019, 01:13 PM

Again, I am just thinking now that the rear axle capacity has caught up to the tires that the easiest thing to do is increase axle capacity and tire capacity. This is all in the spirit of Ford, Ram, GM and who can build the most capable truck. You know they have several rooms full of smart people thinking of the next big thing...someone has to say tires.

SRW trucks can now carry close to the weight of the old (mid 90's) dually trucks.

Oh, maybe even DOT diffinitions may need to change. That will be like pushing an elephant up the steps I know.

redhooker · 11-08-2019, 12:31 PM

Yes tuffr I see exactly where your thinking is. The DRWs are not lacking in tires unless the GVWR is raised up to 18k or so. That would be highly unlikely.

The SRWs are definitely banging on the tire limits. But if you have ever rode on 19.5s (I tried a conversion on an old 3/4 ton under a Lance) they ride like wagon wheels on the prairie

. It could happen but I doubt 19.5s would go over well with the majority of rarely-towing diesel truck buyers.

mtofell · 11-08-2019, 11:46 PM

I read a review of the most capable Ram truck recently - DRW, 4.10 gears, Aisin tranny. The thing that stuck with me was what the author said about it's drive-ability when not towing. Basically, it's kind of a crappy vehicle in terms of ride and handling. Bumpy, bouncy and stiff.

It does seem the truck manufacturers are kind of a victim of their own successes. Now that they've made trucks to haul 30,000# 5th wheels, there are such beastly trailers made. Next, we'll want 35,000# 5th wheels and a truck to pull them. All the while wanting it to feel like driving in a Cadillac.

Rhagfo · 11-09-2019, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtofell

I read a review of the most capable Ram truck recently - DRW, 4.10 gears, Aisin tranny. The thing that stuck with me was what the author said about it's drive-ability when not towing. Basically, it's kind of a crappy vehicle in terms of ride and handling. Bumpy, bouncy and stiff.

It does seem the truck manufacturers are kind of a victim of their own successes. Now that they've made trucks to haul 30,000# 5th wheels, there are such beastly trailers made. Next, we'll want 35,000# 5th wheels and a truck to pull them. All the while wanting it to feel like driving in a Cadillac.

Last line says it all!
People want a tow vehicle that can tow and CARRY a huge load and want it to ride like a Cadillac when empty. It would be interesting to drive a Ram 3500 DRW with the rear air to see how much smother it rides.
I know our 2016 Ram 3500 with rear leaf springs rides smoother than our old 2001 2500 with camper package.
You also still have to deal with the class limits, and what raising them will do to Registration cost, insurance, HOA rules, and local laws on vehicle size.

tuffr2 · 11-09-2019, 08:03 AM

On my test drive of the 2020 Chevy 2500HD 6.6 gas engine the driving dynamics get an A. On my 2017 F-250 6.2 gas engine I give that truck B+.

Now my test drive of a new 2019 Ram 6.4 Hemi mega cab that truck felt clumsy compared to the above trucks. It was smooth and quiet but had a 162" wheelbase. I drove it slow thru a big boat launch area with boat trailers sticking out so I had to weave a bit. I give the Ram a B-.

If you want a truck that drives like a Cadillac the closest would be a 2019 Ram 1500 Limited with air suspension.

But by 2025 we will need a smooth riding quiet tire that can carry 4,200 lbs.

Jshopes81 · 11-09-2019, 02:56 PM

After thinking about it, i just dont see it happening. 14k is the max for the weight class, i just dont see anyone abandoning one weight class for another when theyve already got trucks in those upper weight classes. It just doesnt make good business sense to me.

tuffr2 · 11-09-2019, 03:15 PM

So, what do you think they will do for the next generation of SRW 250/350 2500/3500 series trucks? New trucks in 2020 so by 2025 or 2026 they should be ready for the next batch of improved trucks I would think.

I do not see more power really. Probably 1,000(ish) ft lbs of torque is plenty. I do no see 12 speed transmissions either. The frames are already rock solid.

So in the spirit of increasing capability what is their next big thing?

Just trying to foresee the next generation of trucks past 2020.

Riley1 · 11-09-2019, 04:55 PM

Just bought a 2019 3500 DRW with air suspension 2 weeks ago and have no complaints. It actually surprised me how nice it rides for a truck of this size.

Rick

redhooker · 11-09-2019, 05:14 PM

Next generation, maybe electric? Who knows. If they made an LT tire rated for 4200# there would just be no duallys. No need.

One thing for sure they have already over shot the payload on towing. I have said it before, but it still rings true.

A one ton dually can pull a max fiver of about 25,000 pounds. Period. I have towed that heavy and if loaded properly it’s well over 5000 pounds on the pin. And about 10000 pounds on the rear axle loaded to tow.

Any heavier will be over on GVWR in a stripped 2 door 2wd. Might squeeze a hair more payload from a gasser but now your underpowered on a trailer over 12 tons. The trucks passed the “Class” ceiling a few years back. Class III that is. They could probably bump the power up and drag a 40k trailer through the SAE test but it will just be a marketing gimmick, which is exactly what the current ratings are. Just like the Toyota that pulled the space shuttle.

redhooker · 11-09-2019, 05:25 PM

I did just think of something. Maybe if they can lighten the trucks up a couple thousand pounds they actually could haul more. Just a thought.

tuffr2 · 11-09-2019, 06:09 PM

I can see a lighter truck but not by 1,000's of pounds but by a few 100 lbs. The 2020 GM trucks are supposed to be about 300 lbs lighter. Kinda like the 2017 Ford Superduty trucks.

I can agree with electric, I can see electric power added to help get better fuel economy. This in effect would help the whole emissions of diesel engines. Less soot, fewer DEF regens, less work the complex emissions system would need to do.

I do think you will always need dually trucks to tow the big toy hauler 5th wheels. I have seen 42' toy haulers with two patios and a 12' garage area.

Jshopes81 · 11-09-2019, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuffr2

I can see a lighter truck but not by 1,000's of pounds but by a few 100 lbs. The 2020 GM trucks are supposed to be about 300 lbs lighter. Kinda like the 2017 Ford Superduty trucks.

I can agree with electric, I can see electric power added to help get better fuel economy. This in effect would help the whole emissions of diesel engines. Less soot, fewer DEF regens, less work the complex emissions system would need to do.

I do think you will always need dually trucks to tow the big toy hauler 5th wheels. I have seen 42' toy haulers with two patios and a 12' garage area.

With the class ratings i just dont see any more "capability". With the gvwrs what they are they cant, theres just no way. All three ttucks are pretty fresh top to bottom, id say theyll run them until 2030, maybe 2035. The last superduty ran from 1999-2016 with minor tweaks.

I dont think well see electric powered trucks. Im actually starting to believe that electric is just a bandaid for gas motors. I dont believe electric is the future of vehicles. Hydrogen maybe? Nuclear? Mr fusion? If i knew id be a millionaire but i feel like electric is a stepping stone like laser disks were.