Nitrogen in tires

[CampDaven]

This thread is one of the finest controversies of all time!
And it will go on forever.
(And I know the answer) [emoji6][emoji23]

[Hit_the_Rhod]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

I only use 78% nitrogen.

Same here! But I use a proprietary blend of other gases for the remaining 22%.

[TonyMac]

Question: Is there a benefit of using nitrogen over using dried air? The Air Force must think so as nitrogen is required in many aircraft operation such as filling struts and tires. The food industry thinks so as many food produces are sealed in a nitrogen rich environment.
Answer: Yes there is. It is the lack of oxygen, not the lack of water. Without oxygen, oxidation cannot occur. Many things oxidize, not just bare ferrous metal. Rubber is one of them, magnesium is another.

[Hit_the_Rhod]

Originally Posted by wildtoad

Ignorant is not a slur, more a statement indicating lack of knowledge which can be “Fixed” by reading or asking questions. Now then, having said that, you CAN’T fix stupid. No one called anyone stupid.

I admit, I fully admit that I am IGNORANT! I can't recite the entire periodic chart from memory, although I imagine I can get at least 90% of them . . . So, I am ignorant.

AND while we're at it, there are people on this forum who are guilty of Discrimination! Why some actually chose to fill their tires with 100% Nitrogen, and others chose 100% AIR! Absolutely SCANDALOUS!

For the record, I am guilty of discrimination as well. Why just this morning, I discriminated between Coffee, and Tea! I guess that makes me a really bad person.

[kdauto]

Originally Posted by TonyMac

Question: Is there a benefit of using nitrogen over using dried air? The Air Force must think so as nitrogen is required in many aircraft operation such as filling struts and tires. The food industry thinks so as many food produces are sealed in a nitrogen rich environment.
Answer: Yes there is. It is the lack of oxygen, not the lack of water. Without oxygen, oxidation cannot occur. Many things oxidize, not just bare ferrous metal. Rubber is one of them, magnesium is another.

All that is needed is an INERT gas. The tires could be filled with nitrogen,argon or a bunch of other gasses. Aviation does not want a potential fire to be spread when a heated tire (from said fire) explodes and fans the flames even more. While the tire will burst even if filled with nitrogen, it won't amplify the fire nor will it extinguish it either.

THAT is the reason aviation uses it, racing uses it etc.

I have never, read NEVER, in my 34+ years of professional automotive experience seen a single tire rotted from the inside and 99.999% of all tires I've ever worked on were filled with air. One of the weakest arguments from the nitrogen machine salespeople as what can they control on the outside of the tire? Are we gonna be creating a 99% nitrogen earth atmosphere or what?

[StageCoachDr]

IMHO, nitrogen is a fairy tail. 1) our atmosphere is 78% nitrogen, 2) when the tire is first mounted it's contains atmospheric air, 3) when topped off with pure nitrogen at the tire shop, the air in the tire is about 85% nitrogen.


No one can inflate a tire with 100% nitrogen unless they start out in a pure nitrogen atmosphere.


Conclusion, just add regular 78% nitrogen atmospheric air to your tires.

[PeterFTH]

Originally Posted by new rver

Thanks for all the good advise in the past. We just bought a 2020 travel trailer that has nitrogen in tires so do I check pressure like I always do? When they are low what do I use to pump them up?.
Thanks for any replys
Bob,Linda& missy

From my perspective, nitrogen in RV tires is an excercise in futility. Nitrogen is used in aircraft tires because it will not support combustion - a valid reason. If you're not carrying nitrogen (and who does?) you will slowly replace that gas with air so in the end, what did you gain? My tires (inflated with air) might lose a pound or two over a year - keep an eye on the condition of your tires regardless of what you inflate them with.

[aether_one]

Originally Posted by TonyMac

Question: Is there a benefit of using nitrogen over using dried air? The Air Force must think so as nitrogen is required in many aircraft operation such as filling struts and tires. The food industry thinks so as many food produces are sealed in a nitrogen rich environment.
Answer: Yes there is. It is the lack of oxygen, not the lack of water. Without oxygen, oxidation cannot occur. Many things oxidize, not just bare ferrous metal. Rubber is one of them, magnesium is another.

So what is subject to this massive oxidation on the inside of the tire that isn't subject to the same oxidation on the outside of the tire??????

[tuffr2]

For the normal people like us, Nitrogen really is of little benefit. Yes for us driving at 75mph it has some tiny tiny amount of benefit.

For Jet Airplane tires it has more benefit.

I would say dry air is as good as Nitrogen fill. The key is to remove the H2O. Without water you have no oxidation.

[elliott-maine]

Unless the tires were filled in a 100% environment - a capsule that was evacuated and then the tires filled with nitrogen in it, you have atmospheric air in them that was topped off with nitrogen. Just fill them with air unless you have nitrogen handy, as there is air in them already.

[BCam]

So, if I use helium, my GVWR will increase, right?

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by gpounder

Nitrogen is a larger molecule so in theory your less likely to have seepage through the tiniest of cracks.

It is also absent moister that can cause rust. That is why it is used in gas shocks and gas landing struts on airplanes.

Don't forget to change the air in your tires every 10,000 miles

The reason N2 stays in tires longer than O2 is NOT the molecule size but the fact that O2 is reactive and "moves" through the structure faster.


You can make your own "air dryer" as seen HERE, if that is your concern. Note the max pressure rating on the dryer before you buy as there are some only good to 90 psi and some higher.


Yes as a tire engineer and race car driver I change my air every few months when I change the Flux-Capacitor filter in my 200 mpg Fish Carburetor.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

The nitrogen molecule is only a tiny 2.6% larger than an oxygen molecule. The big advantage of nitrogen is there is no H2O. If you use common air that you are breathing it contains H2O which can cause corrosion to the wheel. I have seen a wheel where the rim was pitted and leaked air very slowly. This takes years to develope...like 15 years.

If you ever used an air compressor for anything then opened the valve to release the pressure. You always get a drop it two of water. All air tools rust from the inside out because of the moisture in the air.

Now, if you are in a place with low humidity the air is mostly dry. That is better than if you are in a 80% humidity area and use air compressor.

But even here we are splitting hairs. Air is already 78% nitrogen.

I have seen garages that advertise 'dry air'. Air without any H2O. That is as good as nitrogen.

You N2 is relatively low cost compressed gas when you buy a cylinder. You can also get Argon or Helium or even just compressed air. All of which are "dry" and all of which cost a lot more than just basic air compressed to 150 psi.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

And do not forget a tire running at 75 mph on the Arizona or Florida highway. That is probably maxing a tire out IMHO.

I don't think so. If you are setting your pressure correctly to start with the +50F you might get in TX or FL will only increase the pressure about 10%. I have heard claims that some folks see +20% but even that is nothing to worry about.
Now if you are seeing 100% increase then you need to be more worried about what you are doing wrong to get that change.


In general you have to get to +100% or well over 200 psi before I would be concerned. Also the wheel is more likely to fail before the tire from just high pressure.