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Old 07-10-2012, 10:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp Chris View Post
My GCWR= 14928
Not really a limiter, but an indicator of how much of a roadblock you'll be when climbing grades. Also, if you exceed the GCWR, you're much more likely to burn up or bend something under extreme conditions, such as climbing a mountain pass.

Quote:
Towing Cap= 9200
Computed by subtracting the empty weight of your SUV from the GCWR. But since nobody tows with an empty SUV, it not a realistic number. Subtract at least 1,000 pounds to get a more realistic number when towing with a lightly loaded SUV. But it's probably not a useful number anyway because it's based on the GCWR of your TV, and GVWR of your TV is probably your limiter.

Quote:
Hitch weight= 840
Dry hitch weight is meaningless. You need to know your wet and loaded hitch weight, which will be around 12 to 15 percent of the GVWR of the trailer.

Quote:
GVWR= 7700
That's probably your limiter. When you get on a CAT scale with your wet and loaded rig, you want to stay below the GVWR of the tow vehicle (TV).

Quote:
My hideout weight=6230
Cargo capacity= 1610
GVWR of the trailer is 7840. Assume that's what the trailer will weigh when wet and loaded for the road. 12% hitch weight will be about 941 pounds.

The model number of your Hideout model 27DBS trailer indicates it's 27' inside length, but the industry standard for TT length includes the hitch and the spare sticking out the back, so yours is really 31' 10" long per Keystone specs.
Keystone Hideout | Specs

As others have noted, only the CAT scale will tell you for sure where you stand. Before you bought the trailer, you should have loaded the SUV with family and stuff that will be in it, drove to a truckstop with a CAT scale, filled up with gas, then weighed the wet and loaded SUV. Subtract that weight from the 7,700 pounds GVWR, and the answer would have been the max hitch weight you can have without being overloaded. And it would show you that 941 pounds hitch weight will severely overload your Exposition when loaded with family and stuff.

But too late for that now. Load the rig for camping, including the trailer hitched up with your weight-distributing hitch. Be sure all the water hoses, extension cords, sewer hoses, tools, leveling blocks, jacks, etc are in the rig. Have the amount of fresh water in the tank that you'll have when on the road - at least 5 gallons or so to flush the pottie. Go to a truckstop with a CAT scale, fill up with gas and weigh the rig. Add the weight on the front and rear axles of the Expedition and compare to the GVWR of the "truck". Then you'll know where you stand.

Then in the middle of your third camping trip, weigh the wet and loaded rig again. You'll probably be surprized at how much weight your rig gained.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:00 PM   #16
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Understanding RV Weights
Trailer Loading and Towing Guide


ps - "RoyM" is not the standard here. Most of the folks here are more than willing to help.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp Chris
Thanks for the enlightenment Roy... I did ask the dealer and they said it would be no problem... I asked a few times.. maybe my fault for taking their word for it.
CC Don't beat yourself up for the mistake. I, and many other newbies, have done the same thing. In my case the salesman was right - my TV would pull it. It just wouldn't pull it safely. I ended up buying a new TV and it makes a huge difference. Turns out to be a great decision, and others on this forum don't have to stay home when I'm traveling. :-)

Like others have said, get to a scale to have actual weights. Then you can evaluate your situation with confidence. Cost is about $10. Just bring a long stick to reach the intercom button. A golf umbrella reached it but it was a stretch. The CAT Scales website will tell you exactly what to do.

Safe travels.
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:59 PM   #18
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Thanks alot everyone! Definitely looks like I will be going to a scale. I also called the Ford dealer that I purchased it at and they said I will be fine and not to worry. I then called the RV dealer and asked again and they said i even have room to spare. Actually the Ford dealer also said it too. Again for what's its worth with dealers. I figured the Ford dealer maybe a little more forthcoming with honesty. Also, o actually haven't picked up the tt yet. I do this on Saturday and drop of the Expy Thursday to get the hitch, swaybar and brake control done. Got my fingers crossed!!!!!
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:07 PM   #19
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Unfortunately, what most dealers (car or RV) know about trailer towing could fit on the head of a pin with room remaining for a few million angels to dance. There are exceptions, but they are few and too far between.

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Old 07-10-2012, 03:43 PM   #20
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Unless you take everything including an extra kitchen sink I doubt you'll add 1,600 lbs in cargo. Our motorhome weighs 16,600 lbs with full tanks of fuel and propane. When we load it for a 2 - 3 month trip it tips the scales at 18,800 lbs. That includes 90 gallons of water @ 8.3 lbs per gal. So roughly 750 lbs is for water alone. That means all the food, clothes, dishes, tools, etc. etc. for 3 months weighs roughly 1,500 lbs.

We could easily pare that down some by maybe taking 100 or so less pairs of shoes, or a couple fewer boxes of "necessary tools", or just limiting the beer to a dozen cases or so.
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Old 07-10-2012, 04:03 PM   #21
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Thanks for the enlightenment Roy... I did ask the dealer and they said it would be no problem... I asked a few times.. maybe my fault for taking their word for it.
You can always tell when the RV salesman is lying--his lips are moving.
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:50 PM   #22
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Well I'm feeling a little better talking to everyone here and a few others outside the computer world. We only will be doing weekend camping with a week trip once or twice a year. So my packing should be somewhat light.. a friend said he gains about 600 when he does a long weekend with a equal size tt. Also a girl at work had an equal size keystone and pulls with a Durango which I believe has a lower towing capacity... Anyway.... thanks again everyone!
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:38 AM   #23
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When you get it on the scales, the numbers will tell the tale. Let us know what you find out.

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Old 07-11-2012, 05:35 AM   #24
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Thanks alot everyone! Definitely looks like I will be going to a scale. I also called the Ford dealer that I purchased it at and they said I will be fine and not to worry. I then called the RV dealer and asked again and they said i even have room to spare. Actually the Ford dealer also said it too. Again for what's its worth with dealers. I figured the Ford dealer maybe a little more forthcoming with honesty. Also, o actually haven't picked up the tt yet. I do this on Saturday and drop of the Expy Thursday to get the hitch, swaybar and brake control done. Got my fingers crossed!!!!!
You're right to be concerned about exceeding the Ford's towing limits, the warranty service adjuster might not be as generous as the dealer if problems arise with the vehicle.
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:16 AM   #25
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So after purchasing my 2012 27' hideout, I am now worried that my 2007 Ford Expedition may not have the capacity to tow it!? According to my simplified version of calculating I'm 612 # over. My GCWR= 14928
GVWR= 7700
Towing Cap= 9200
Hitch weight= 840

My hideout weight=6230
Cargo capacity= 1610
Any help would be great!!
GVWR - 7700 the most your truck should weight fully loaded. Scale it for actual weight with full tank of gas and family.
You want it to come in with enough to be able to add tongue weight and be under 7700 lbs.
If then you are safe, load trailer as you would for a trip. Take to scales and get weights for steer axle, rear axle, trailer and total weight. Inside the door jamb is a plate that gives MAX capabilities of axles - GFAWR for front and GRAWR for rear. If close to rear capacity, trailer can be loaded with less weight on the front to lighten load. It is more desirable to put weight over trailer axles than to put too much to the rear and make the tongue weight too light. This would cause 'the tail wagging the dog' effect. Weight from stuff carried inside the TV also can be distributed to trailer as long as safe limits are observed.
Trailer has a GVWR plate too. Should be dry weight plus total cargo weight.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:12 PM   #26
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Hi

So far you have some good advice.

The one thing no one has asked is what is the trailer GWR (this will be on the VIN tag). And what is your GCWR for the TV. With this and the information you posted you can at least determine if you would even want to fool with the scale.

We pull a 39 ft 5-th wheel that has a GWR of 15,909 lbs. The TV has a GCWR of 23,500 lbs. before I purchased the trailer or the truck I did the math on the published weights for the TV and found they would be little over the GCWR for the TV by about 400 lbs. I purchase both TV and trailer weighed them before loading any thing and found I had a couple of tons I could use for trailer cargo and TV cargo.

We loaded the TV and towed the trailer to an axel scale. We found that I had 1 1/2 ton I could load in the trailer with out exceeding the GCWR of the TV. This resulted in our not being able to load the trailer to its GWR.

Now for some history. We weigh before every trip where we are loaded heavy (we do weekend trips that we donít take all of the toys).

We have found that the weight increases as time goes by. You put things in the TV and trailer without thinking and your weight gradually gets greater.

So far we havenít exceeded any of the weight limitations of the TV or the trailer. I will never be able to load the trailer to its GVW without exceeding the TV weight limitations. The heavest weight I have ever had on the axel scale is 23,400 lbs. Close but legal and the TV has pulled this weight for 38,000 miles so far and no problems with the TV. Can't say the same for the 5-th wheel.

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Old 07-12-2012, 01:10 PM   #27
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Wink

Not much good news here. My wife has had three Expeditions with the 5.4. Don't know about your truck, but ours all came with a Class III hitch, which if I'm not mistaken has a capacity of 5000# towing weight and 500 tongue weight. She tows our quads behind her Expy while I haul the TT and she and the truck do just fine. But that's only a 3500# load plus the gear and dogs inside.

Also, she does not have a heavy duty towing package, which I believe, I could be wrong, is how the Expedition gets to its 9200 pound tow number. You might want to verify how yours is equipped. Personally, I don't see Ford lawyers letting their truck out the door telling folks they can tow 9200 pounds but selling it with a Class III hitch.

You didn't mention a brake controller, a necessity, not an option.

The 5.4 and the transmission are great, if underpowered, when not abused. Hope you don't live in the mountains as we do.

If your truck is properly equipped for that weight, you will want a WD hitch with sway control. Another must. Or your front axle won't have enough weight on it for proper control. You'll notice that immediately I'd think.

Don't be discouraged, what's done is done. You could get a year around lot on a lake and have it towed there until you can upgrade your TV. I'm a Ford guy, but I think their Expedition EL is still on the light 150 frame, so no help there. When finances allow, you could look for a Excursion with the 250 setup or, Heaven forbid, go with a Suburban 2500.

Your most important lesson here is never to be forgotten. If the salesman's lips are moving, he's lying. Most of us learned that the hard way, so don't feel bad about that.

Good luck, and trust that with time, this will work out, you'll love camping and you'll become as wise and all-knowing as the rest of us. HA!
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:43 PM   #28
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Thanks cekkk,

I just brought my Expy in today for brake control system! I do have the HD towing package on my Expy which includes a class IV hitch and transmission cooling. I have been playing with the numbers for days now and know I will be fine which is a relief!! If I reach my max weights on both then I am a couple hundred pounds over. We are not travelers, only a family of five and are only camping within an hour of my house where there are no mountains, just some hilly areas. I do have a question about tires though. I currently have BFGoodrich Long Trail T/A Tour Tire P265/70R17 113T which has a load capacity of 2535 I believe.. Are these the tires better for towing or not? In the description it says light truck which I though was the upgraded tires for towing??
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