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Old 01-16-2012, 10:21 PM   #1
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Opinions on 5'er vs TT w/2011 F250 4x4 Crew Cab 6.7l Diesel

Hi everyone... I'm going to be buying my first RV in the next couple of months and am having a hard time deciding whether to go with a 5th wheel or travel trailer. I have a family of 5 (my wife & 3 young boys) and we really like the 2012 Keystone Cougar 324RLB. My concern is would I be pushing my truck too far... I know I can tow most travel trailers, safely, legally, etc. no problem. The problem is there aren't any we liked nearly as much as this 5th wheel.

My truck: 2011 F250 4x4 Crew Cab 6.7l Diesel w/3.55 Gears...GVWR 10,000lbs...GCWR 23,000lbs...Rear GAWR 6100LBS...Convential Towing Max 14,000lbs...5th Wheel Towing Max 15,700lbs....

My truck gassed up on the scale w/o 5th hitch installed:
Front Axle: 4,840lbs
Rear Axle: 3,180lbs
Total: 8020lbs

2012 Keystone Cougar 324RLB:
Shipping Weight: 10,081lbs
Carrying Capacity: 1,849lbs
Hitch Weight: 1,530lbs

So I would be at approx. 9550lbs without a 5th wheel hitch or passengers. I know the truck has the power to pull it (I would still be under the GCWR). It would not be over on payload capacity. I would however be over on GVWR (unless maybe I ride by myself).
Am I worrying about this too much? I have a few friends pulling huge 5th wheels 3/4 ton trucks but I know they are way past the manufacture ratings.

Thanks!
Steve
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:52 AM   #2
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DW and I bought a 2011 cougar RES 5er. We had considered a TT but though a 5er was more manageable while driving. I also liked the seperation of the bedroom and livingroom/kitchen area. A TT to me is one large room with a wall seperating the bedroom. I can go to the bedroom and feel seperated from the rest of the 5er. We pull it with a 06 F350 diesel without a problem. I don't think that you'll have a problem pulling with your F250.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:13 AM   #3
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sbell76,
I think you have answered your own question. You can't go by the shipping weight, look at the GVWR of the unit and figure 20% for pin weight. 12,000# GVWR gives you north of 2000# of pin weight, which puts you over your truck GVWR, without hitch or passengers. It is what ever you are comfortable with, being overloaded puts different stresses on your tow vehicle, so you have to make up your mind on what you are comfortable with.
Frank
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sbell76 View Post
I have a family of 5 (my wife & 3 young boys). To me, at least, that makes the decision easy.
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I would however be over on GVWR (unless maybe I ride by myself). Yes, you will.
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.
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I have a few friends pulling huge 5th wheels 3/4 ton trucks but I know they are way past the manufacture ratings. As a parent, you should be familiar with the "But Dad, ALL the other kids are doing it!!!" excuse. It doesn't make it right, does it?
My 2 cents' worth above.

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Old 01-18-2012, 08:15 AM   #5
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Thanks for your time guys... Rusty you are right, there is nothing more important than the safety of my family. I think we are going to go with one of the Keystone Laredo or Outback bunkhouse travel trailers. Anyone have any experience or advice on a good anti-sway hitch like PullRite, ProPride or Hensley Arrow?

-Steve
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:53 PM   #6
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I had a Hensley Arrow for 4-5 years--after using it for my 30KFS Sunnybrook (9900GVW) after a standard WD hitch, I would not ever consider pulling a TT without one. But, I think, based on forum discussions, the ProPride is every bit as good and somewhat less expensive.
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:50 AM   #7
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You've found lots of your "numbers" here are some more:

- You can find your actual cargo capacity for the truck on the Tire and Loading Information sticker on the left side of the frame...open the doors and you can see it.

- Disregard all the factory tow numbers, the actual tow capacity for any vehicle is the truck's GCWR minus the weight of the truck when ready to tow (including pin weight, etc) or the hitch capacity, which ever is smaller.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:06 PM   #8
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I'm not going to BS you and say figuring weights my way is the only way so if you choose to use GVWR for figuring axle/tire loads thats fine but your selling your truck way short of its actual legal load limits which by the way the trucks GVWR isn't one of them. No where in the USA or Canada is the trucks GVWR used for a vehicles weight carrying capacity. Thats the function of the trucks axles/tire ratings found on the trucks certification placard.

You mention your truck has a 3180 lb rear axle weight. Subtract that from the trucks 6100 RAWR and your left with approx 2920 lbs. Subtract another 200 for the hitch = 2720 lbs left for a pin weight.

Stay under your trucks axle/tire capacity rating and you and the kids and everyones kids will be safe and legal and the truck will last its full life expectancy with regular scheduled maintenance.

If your confused with how much weight your truck can carry simply call your state size and weights division folks. They can enlighten you on your legal weight limits for a safe towing combo.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:48 PM   #9
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Time to get yelled at but my DW and I have a 07 cougar srx. We tow it with our 00 f250 and our numbers are just in line with yours. I have never felt uncomfortable or uneasy towing this trailer. It comes down to your comfort towing vs comfort in the trailer, for us the 5er gives you so much more versatility over that TT inside. When we go camping its me,my wife, daughter and two dogs. You have enough truck to handle the cougar and if you need any reassurance just go to any campground and compare the number of 3/4 tons vs 1 tons sitting next to their trailers. The proof is there that 3/4 ton trucks are capable.
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Old 01-25-2012, 03:33 PM   #10
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You have enough truck to handle the cougar and if you need any reassurance just go to any campground and compare the number of 3/4 tons vs 1 tons sitting next to their trailers. The proof is there that 3/4 ton trucks are capable.
That doesn't mean that these trucks are within their respective manufacturers' GVWR or GAWR ratings. I've seen an individual pulling a 22K GVWR Teton with an early 2000s F-250. Is that combination OK? Obviously, he thought so. Unfortunately, in all too many cases, they're pulling a large 5th wheel with a 3/4 ton truck because some truck or RV salesman told them, "Sure, your truck will pull this. No problem at all."

The fundamental choice that each owner faces is this - do I want to stay within all of my manufacturer's ratings or not? If they do, we advise them how to do it - there are even a number of tools to let the user make their own calculations in the "sticky" message at the top of this Towing and Tow Vehicles forum. If, on the other hand, ratings don't matter, then theoretically one can pull anything with anything.


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Old 01-25-2012, 10:33 PM   #11
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"If your confused with how much weight your truck can carry simply call your state size and weights division folks. They can enlighten you on your legal weight limits for a safe towing combo. "

Not necessarily--most of them know little except what is in the computer--for example, in TX I tried to explain that I was licensing my F450 and they insisted that its weight rating was 11500 (Ford says 14500). Tried to question it, but no other way could they see any other weight ratings for Fords.

Maybe I was talking to the wrong folks, but sure didn't want to waste time finding a DOT office. Then, again, maybe I ought to, since I weigh out at 10,200. Not commercial, by the way.

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Old 01-26-2012, 08:22 PM   #12
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"If your confused with how much weight your truck can carry simply call your state size and weights division folks. They can enlighten you on your legal weight limits for a safe towing combo. "

Not necessarily--most of them know little except what is in the computer--for example, in TX I tried to explain that I was licensing my F450 and they insisted that its weight rating was 11500 (Ford says 14500). Tried to question it, but no other way could they see any other weight ratings for Fords.

Maybe I was talking to the wrong folks, but sure didn't want to waste time finding a DOT office. Then, again, maybe I ought to, since I weigh out at 10,200. Not commercial, by the way.

Joe
Size and weight folks are the enforcment end and very few know the proper registration fees/weight clas for any particular vehicle as they have nothing to do with vehicle registration.

All private or commercial haulers should know their states legal weight issues regarding how much legal load the truck can safely carry.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:01 PM   #13
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All private or commercial haulers should know their states legal weight issues regarding how much legal load the truck can safely carry.
Let's not confuse "legal" and "safe". The weights and measures enforcement is aimed at the following:

1. Revenue generation - to ensure that the vehicles are licensed and/or permitted for the load they are carrying or are capable are carrying

2. Protection of roads and bridges - thus, the maximum axle loading and axle spacing regulations

3. Operator licensing - ensuring that the operator is licensed to operate a vehicle that is licensed/permitted for a particular weight

It's very possible to be "legal" and over a manufacturer's ratings. Example - in Class 8 rigs, the truck's GVWR is generally the sum of its GAWRs. That is NOT the case with a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. The GVWR of a dually is generally LESS than the sum of the GAWRs. If the weights and measures enforcers are only looking at tire and axle ratings while ignoring the manufacturer's GVWR and GCWR, it's quite possible to be within the truck's GAWR and tire ratings but over the manufacturer's rated GVWR and/or GCWR.

As has been stated many times (and undoubtedly will be stated many times in the future), if one wants to select a truck and trailer that will operate within the manufacturer's ratings, then the calculation tools provided in the sticky thread at the top of this Towing and Tow Vehicles forums will allow one to do so. If, on the other hand, manufacturer's ratings don't matter, then hitch up that 16K+ GVWR 5th wheel to a 1/2 or 3/4 ton truck and have at it.

Rusty
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:26 PM   #14
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It appears that you may be dealing with people that are trying to justify what they are doing and disregarding what could happen if a smart lawyer got into an accident case and proved that a vechile was over the manufacture's limits.
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